Why is it so popular to kill innocent NPCs?

[evileeyore]

For all those who claim it shows something about the players: DING! You are correct. It shows they have a crappy DM who doesn't introduce the concept of actions=consequences.

For instance I am a sociopath in real life. I understand actions=consequences, thus I act as a lawabidding citizen. I know I couldn't out think the cops should I commit crimes, so I don't.

In game sometimes its fun to play 'chaotic' or 'evil' characters. To try to out think your enemies, to exercise character power. The problems arise when the DM doesn't have his world exercise authority. Ussually this occurs because the DM 'doesn't want to ruin the game for the players'.

'Good' and 'Lawful' aligned characters do the same when they smite down bad guys. They excersize their power and do so in a manner that the world (through the DM's eyes) approve of.

What you are seeing in 'all those threads' is mearly the ranting of DM's who don't know who to run a game. They end up here complianing and often get advice that may help them in the future.

--Tireless Tirade--EvilE

 

[thundershot]

I thought D&D was about killing sentient creatures and taking their stuff...


Reminds me of when running the RttToEE, and .. hm.. I don't want to spoil anything... but.. um.. well, one of our characters wiped out a particular NPC who was providing... stimulants... to (IMC at least) all of the important people in the town. Suddenly, they weren't able to get their fix. When he returned to the town a week or two later, there was a huge graveyard of the fallen (all the clergy, too!). Funny thing is, when he killed the guy, he was in the form of a female Sahuagin (a magic item accident), but by the time he returned, he was back to his normal body, so NO ONE in the town knew it was him (he did it on his own while the rest of the party was outside of town). So by the end of the RttToEE, the PC's were revered as heroes in the towns, especially this one, being close to the Crater Ridge Mines. The irony being that they were praising the same guy who wiped out almost half their town's population... Ah... I love being the DM.



Chris

 

[Liolel]

My pc's have never killed innocent npcs. Quite the opposite really, they have let captured orc shamans leave alive, and defeated troglodytes continue to live their lives and even left those troglodytes in a position to keep their young protected. I'm glad that my group shows mercy, for thats the type of group I enjoy running.

Of course both of those examples did surrender, something that I do fairly often at the end of big pitched battles. I mean how many orcs, or trogs are going to fight to the death, when there companions were killed quite easily.

 

[clark411]

One of the easiest and most rewarded ways of interacting with any DND setting is with a sharp object whose function is to kill things- primarily people.

Typically, as before mentioned, this comes up when DMs aren't presenting negative and logical responses to such things or keeping the world realistic in that guards are quite good at catching murderers and thieves. The one-two punch is often the combo between the tropes of "Killing is Okay as this is Fantasy" and "Guards/Establishments are generally inferior to adventurers." (lazy, fat guards, stupid administrations, easily manipulated and addle-minded lords)

There's also the instance where DMs can't actually do anything about it however- primarily in thorps or when the PCs have hit the higher levels. Typically a thorp might have a level 5 person or two in it- nothing that a PC party can't handle with a little forethought or say.. a total of 20-25 levels. At level 16, it gets pretty hard to justify a random high level guy just dropping everything and saying "HEY, don't kill useless peasants!" when there are often more important things to do (not to be cold) like stopping dragon hordes, invading planar nasties, and providing True Ressurrections to the nobility that can afford them.

I run an Exalted game (classless d10 game) where my players are basically epic level hero demigodlike beings... from game one. They can overthrow kingdoms in an hour of play if they want, and can kill entire armies if they roll well enough and don't fall to sheer numbers. As the dm for that game, I've made it pretty clear that the setting is pretty much at their mercy, barring the other demigodlike beings that may attempt to stop them if they rampage a lot. Sometimes they will use their swords- but it's not played up, rewarded, or given any amazing "You are teh aeseom!" anymore than if they used words or wits. By and large, knowing this- they don't act too hostile unless they need to, or it is obviously beneficial to their goals.

 

[Wombat]

I don't know about others, but there are actually laws in my worlds, laws which, if broken, can lead to serious consequences, even execution of PCs.

Equally killing random/innocent NPCs gains no XP in my world, and rarely more than a handful of coppers.

Personally I find the random slaughtering of NPCs to be about on par with mindless entertainments like first-person shooter games -- kill everything that moves, etc. I prefer a bit of morality in my games, but I guess I'm just old-fashioned...

 

[Umbran]

I think it says quite a bit about the player, and not anything good.

It says nothing about the player. It is a fantasy game, and people playing it know darned well that there are no real-world consequences for such actions. Folks play evil and despicable PCs all the time, without having any particular lack of empathy in the real world.

 

[tonym]

Any NPC has the 'potential' to be an evil, sneaky villain. They may act nice and appear unarmed, but maybe they're waiting for the perfect moment to steal the PC's stuff and poison their horse!

Killing any so-called 'innocent' NPC is merely a pre-emptive attack, done because one's PC is motivated by fears of anticipating a need for revenge.

Heck, it borders on self-defense.


Tony

 

[Nifft]

Because what would adolescent power fantasy be without the excercise of your power?

Amen. Sadly, too often "I'm gonna kill the NPCs!" is a meta-game abuse of power, since that player is saying "I'm gonna mess up your plot and setting, DM! Ha-ha!" or "I'm evil, but you other PCs can't kill me, because I'm a PC too! Ha-ha!". If you're not playing an Evil campaign, that is.

All in all, I think it's about as fun, useful and mature as puncturing the volleyball during a game.

(I've played with and DM'd people who were of this mind set. I no longer tolerate them.)

-- N

 

[Gothmog]

In 100% of my experiences, when you have PCs wandering around slaughtering non-offensive NPCs, you have a combination of two things happening:

1. DMs who won't enforce consequences for killing NPCs. Most of the time they either rationalize "the PCs are the stars of the show, so they should get away with it" or they are rather inexperienced DMs who think its "kool" to be so antisocial. If both the DM and the players don't have a problem with it, I guess its not a big deal, just very juvenile.

2. Players who do this are often either young and trying to have adolescent power fantasies, or are disturbed people who have a lot of bitterness and spite because their real lives suck so bad. Kids grow out of this sort of thing (hopefully), but for the folks who are bitter and miserable, there are better ways to spend your time than playing a game. For God's sake, DO something to make your life better rather than boost your own pathetic ego by making others miserable and making pathetic attempts at dominance displays in a fictional world.

Yep, I know thats harsh, and I might have stepped on some toes, but I have dealt with this several times in the past, and every time it has been one problem player who nearly wrecks the group. I have also found that the emotional and mental basket cases make up about 90% of those players who slaughter anything that irks them. Now if I get someone behaving like this, I lay the holy smackdown on their PC (that PC WILL be brought to justice and exectued), then I kick them out of the group- no questions asked. That kind of behavior doesn't appeal to me or the friends I game with, and players who conduct themselves in such a manner are not welcome.

EDIT: By the way, this is different than an evil campaign. In evil games, its understood the PCs might be doing some bad things, but the "slaughter the whole village" style of sociopathic evil will result in a very short campaign with dead PCs. I have run a successful 2 year evil campaign before where the PCs were sneaky, insidious, and diabolical kinds of evil- which made it that much more fun and somewhat disturbing.

Double Edit: Something else just occurred to me- DMs killing or doing something horrible to innocent NPCs. This can be a really effective way to motivate the PCs, especially if it is someone they respect or care about. This is usually a good thing, since it brings the PCs into the game more and ties them to the world. Doing this to arbitrarily is a problem though, because PCs will begin to think "whats the point of making NPC allies?" So about 70% of the time, you need to let the PCs be able to rescue or improve the NPCs situation.

 

[Janx]

Good reasons above. un-enforced consequences usually perpeuates it.

Munchkinism also encourages it, as it is increasingly harder to bring in a bad PC when they have some much loot to foil attempts.

It also kicks in when it is more work to deal with an NPC than simply kill him and take his stuff.

It also happens because the players see a line between NPC and PC. Us and Them. It's easy to kill Them because they're not Us. This is a real life phenomena.

Making NPCs more realistic (consequences for killing them, likeable or memorable personalities) usually keeps them alive.

In for a penny, in for a pound usually gets city guard killed. Who hasn't killed some city guards when they got caught stealing something petty. Why? because you're already in trouble, and if you kill them and get away with it, you win, otherwise, you lose (going to prison usually isn't fun).