Why is Polar Ray an 8th level spell?

[jaelis]

I guess this is my point: I think that a ray spell that dealt 1d6/level damage, max 20d6, would be a 7th level spell. An area spell that dealt 1d6/level damage, save half, max 25d6, would be an 8th level spell.

To me, that implies that the reason polar ray is an 8th level spell is the high damage cap, and nothing else.

 

[Sparafucile]

One good thing about Polar Ray is that it doesn't require any metamagic feats. You don't need to have acess to Empower, Maximize, etc to make it effective.

Other combinations of evocation spells may do more dice of damage, but if you want to be a Sorcerer with bloodline feats, you can still get some damage out there as long as you have an eighth level spell.

 

[Folly]

I guess this is my point: I think that a ray spell that dealt 1d6/level damage, max 20d6, would be a 7th level spell. An area spell that dealt 1d6/level damage, save half, max 25d6, would be an 8th level spell.

To me, that implies that the reason polar ray is an 8th level spell is the high damage cap, and nothing else.

I agree that that makes sense. The issue comes from the fact that the 7th level AoE spell has an additional feature. Since this it the case, it would make since if polar ray also had an additional power of similar strength.

 

[roguerouge]

I would rather use an Energy Substituted Maximized Empowered Scorching Ray Spell. It is One Level Lower and I can use it on up to Three Targets at one time!

And it requires either three feats or casting the spell with one hand while holding a rod and balancing the other two rods on your head....

 

[kreynolds]

It doesn't have a save because it's a ray. Ranged touch spells never have a save because you have make an attack roll.

Disintegrate? Or were you referring to just straight-up damage-dealing energy spells?

 

[Corsair]

Disintegrate? Or were you referring to just straight-up damage-dealing energy spells?

Disintegrate gets its own wonkyness because it essentially deals double damage. Hence the need for the save.

 

[Victim]

One good thing about Polar Ray is that it doesn't require any metamagic feats. You don't need to have acess to Empower, Maximize, etc to make it effective.

Other combinations of evocation spells may do more dice of damage, but if you want to be a Sorcerer with bloodline feats, you can still get some damage out there as long as you have an eighth level spell.

It does require caster level boosts though. Otherwise that 25d6 cap doesn't get used. Especially when the spell first becomes available. Sure, an 8th level spell caps at 25d6. Too bad the 15th level wizard casting it is only doing 15d6 - the same as a 4th level single target spell according to those guidelines above. Some upgrade. So you could strip out the secondary feature, and SR: No conjuration BS from Orb spells, and Polar Ray is worse at 15th level. A few more levels gives it fairly minor damage advantages at the cost of a much higher level spell.

And if you're using Core for balance, then caster level boosts for arcanists are rather scarce, so the high damage cap is wasted even at 20th level.

That's why high level damage dealing spells should have additional advantages appropriate to their spell level. To say otherwise is to suggest that save based attacks shouldn't get any stronger in effect as they advance in level either - you're getting that sweet +1 DC per extra spell level after all. And even that comes into play immediately when the spell is available, instead over after a few extra levels.

 

[Arkhandus]

When they split up the Emotion spell in 3.5, they made some of its former functions into lower-level spells than Emotion itself was (it was only 4th-level in the first place because it had a variety of different uses). Polar Ray really doesn't deserve to be 8th-level, and the 25-die damage cap isn't much use in a core-rules spell.

It was core in 3.5, so using non-core supplements for Twin Spell and Sudden Maximize and Energy Substitution and suchlike isn't much of an argument for why Polar Ray was 8th-level in the 3.5 PHB. Disintegrate can do 40d6 damage anyway (by 20th-level) if the target doesn't make their save, doesn't rely on a specific energy type that can be resisted, and still deals 5d6 damage on a successful Fortitude save. That will generally kill a Rogue, a Wizard, or similar fellow (like a Fey, Undead, Construct, or Aberration, who also have low base Fortitude) outright.

A 16th-level fighter might have touch AC of 18, with a Ring +5 and a 16 Dex in mithral full plate. A 16th-level rogue might have touch AC of 24, with a Ring +5 and 28 Dex in Gloves +6. A 16th-level wizard will have a ranged attack roll of +13 maybe, with +8 BAB, +4 Dex, and +1 Weapon Focus (Rays). Sure, he can Quicken True Strikes, but he still has to deal with energy resistances for Polar Ray. Any reasonably old red dragon is probably going to have Protection from Energy (Cold) active anyway, while white dragons won't care, demons and devils will often resist a nice chunk of the damage, etc. The Polar Ray will certainly be useful against fighter-type NPCs or others who might not have invested in energy resistance.

Evasion is not that common. And Disintegrate works better than Polar Ray for many purposes. Anything it doesn't work well against (high Fortitude saves) will be the stuff Delayed Blast Fireball works well against, or Irresistable Dance (followed by DBF or similar), or Mage's Sword. Polar Ray just isn't worth its spell level compared to Disintegrate, Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, etc.

 

[evilbob]

I guess I just see this spell as "one more option." It's like the question, "why would you need lightning bolt if you have fireball?" Because even though their damage/save is equal, they still do different things.

Polar ray is a touch attack with no save; does that cover every situation? Of course not - but it will be the best choice in certain situations. Other spells use a reflex save - again, sometimes that's what you need, sometimes it is not. Disintegrate uses a fort save: occasionally you want a spell with a fort save and occasionally you don't. Sometimes you just want a high-burst-damage, single-target touch attack. Sometimes you don't. Does that make the spell more or less useful than other spells? Not really. In fact, depending on the campaign - which ultimately, this is what all "is this useful" questions come down to - it could be much MORE useful than other spells. It all depends... which is why blanket statements about usefulness are generally un-useful.

Ultimately, I would postulate that this spell has its uses and is probably "balanced" with other spells of its level.

 

[darthkilmor]

Ultimately, I would postulate that this spell has its uses and is probably "balanced" with other spells of its level.

It certainly has uses, but I'd hardly call it balanced with other 8th level spells.
You could have a whole range of the same spell from 3rd to 8th, the only difference being the max damage die because of what level they are. There's nothing that polar ray does that it couldn't be a 2nd or 3rd level spell, with a max dmg die of 10, and a 4th or 5th level version with a max damage die of 15, and a 6th or 7th level version with a max damage die of 20. There are no secondary effects, no "and the subject is slowed for 1 round" or "subject is stuck in place" or "subject is shunted to the plane of ice for 3 rounds".

Heck, if it was 2nd level, compare it to scorching ray and its balanced.



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