Why is the Gish so popular with players?

[Minigiant]

My interests into Gishes was from the Enix video game series Star Ocean.

It was basically Star Trek Away team is stranded on Medieval Magic Planet and learn magic swordsplay. The worlds used symbols to create magic because of SPOILERS.

Swordsmen would slash symbols in the air with their Heraldric swords to toss pillars of air, teleport to foes, summon temporary copies of themselves, or sheath their blades in elemental or (un)holy power.

Imagine a dual wielder slashing the air thrice to create a portal, jumping in the portal, teleporting around the foe with their 2 clones and hitting it at 3 angles.

 

[Corinnguard]

Laserllama's Magus is really good, although my preference is Kibblestasty's Spellblade.

https://www.kthomebrew.com/s/Spellblade-v11.pdf

Agreed. I wish Laser Llama's and Kibblestasty's work was available on D&D Beyond. I would love to play a Dragonborn Magus (Order of the Blade Dancer).

 

[Undrave]

Battlesmith Artificer is also a really fun gish.

Yeah a lot of the Artificer class features are super cool and they feel like a cool take on the concept. My biggest issue with the Artificer is that I don't feel like they really need that whole half-caster+ progression. And the way they can just change their spell list is really bizarre.

 

[Autumnal]

Important note at the outset: this is not ann attack on Matt Colville. I don’t know him and am honestly not familiar with his work. This is me picking up on a bit of his phrasing and reflecting on how I’ve been thinking when making criticisms phrases that way, and how I’ve observed the same in the lives and work of colleagues I know well enough to have some context.

What I’ve noticed is that when we as creators denounce a recurring player favorite option as overpowered, what’s very often going on behind the scenes is that we failed in some way on the other options. We made them too weak, or too rigid and inflexible, or too narrowly focused. Or hamstrung somehow when it comes to using nest stuff elsewhere in the game. Or, usually, some combination of some or all of them.

It’s really hard to recognize that my urge to say “they only want that because they like being overpowered” should send me back to review ways the other options may be letting player wishes down. It’s not always true - I mean, there are players who only want overpowered characters who can hug the spotlight and diminish everyone else’s significance, and raining on their parade is fine. But there are more players like folks in this thread wanting useful but not overpowering ways of crossing some lines. They usually deserve accommodation via better-designed options.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah a lot of the Artificer class features are super cool and they feel like a cool take on the concept. My biggest issue with the Artificer is that I don't feel like they really need that whole half-caster+ progression. And the way they can just change their spell list is really bizarre.

My artificer just hit 11th level, and I’m super excited to turn my steel panther into a full time Vortex Warper via Spell Storing Item.

 

[Undrave]

My artificer just hit 11th level, and I’m super excited to turn my steel panther into a full time Vortex Warper via Spell Storing Item.

Can you actually do that? the Steel Panther isn't a simple or martial weapon and it's not a spell casting focus? Can it hold one of those?

Honestly feels like something the Artificer should be able to do earlier than 11... Heck, maybe that's how ALL their spellcasting should have been: store and release. They'd have to get extra weapons and tools just to store stuff in! The Artificer could store Mending in a big wrench and fix stuff by whacking them with the tool!

 

[TwoSix]

Can you actually do that? the Steel Panther isn't a simple or martial weapon and it's not a spell casting focus? Can it hold one of those?

Honestly feels like something the Artificer should be able to do earlier than 11... Heck, maybe that's how ALL their spellcasting should have been: store and release. They'd have to get extra weapons and tools just to store stuff in! The Artificer could store Mending in a big wrench and fix stuff by whacking them with the tool!

Multiple online sources I checked on agreed that the Steel Defender could activate a Spell Storing Item as its action, which I would activate with my character's bonus action.

I would have loved an artificer that essentially had to prepare all of its spells as magic items ahead of time.

 

[Pedantic]

Can you actually do that? the Steel Panther isn't a simple or martial weapon and it's not a spell casting focus? Can it hold one of those?

Honestly feels like something the Artificer should be able to do earlier than 11... Heck, maybe that's how ALL their spellcasting should have been: store and release. They'd have to get extra weapons and tools just to store stuff in! The Artificer could store Mending in a big wrench and fix stuff by whacking them with the tool!

The A5E artificer's spell inventions are a fun take on this. They don't expend slots to cast and instead roll a "fizzle die" which might cause the spell device to break with each cast. They get abilities that interact with that, say exploding the inventions violently, or repairing some of them quickly and so on.

 

[Undrave]

Multiple online sources I checked on agreed that the Steel Defender could activate a Spell Storing Item as its action, which I would activate with my character's bonus action.

I would have loved an artificer that essentially had to prepare all of its spells as magic items ahead of time.

I see!

I feel like the Infusion System still has a ton of design space to explore. The Artificer is still very conventional but it would have been cool that instead of a spell book or whatever, whenever the Artificer learns a new spell they have to put it into an item to be able to then channel their spell slots through them. Or maybe storing the spell slots alongside the spells. Would be crazy to let other people use them too.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Important note at the outset: this is not ann attack on Matt Colville. I don’t know him and am honestly not familiar with his work.

There are two Matt Colvilles, I think.

There is the excellent DM advice Matt Colville, of the Running the Game series, which he really ought to write down and sell as a book. It's great.

And then there is Hot Takes Matt Colville, of his opinions of movies/books and of game styles that he doesn't enjoy and, generously, he's hit or miss when he's in this mode.