Why is/was Shadowrun more popular than Cyberpunk?

[Thomas Shey]

Mechanically, that is very much incorrect.

Thematically, mileage may vary, but you can do a lot of "go to location, go through hazardous encounters, get treasure" play.

In regard to the latter, its always felt the most D&D-like of any game that wasn't an obvious D&D derivative (again, not mechanically, but structurally).

Mechanically, early SR is probably closest to Storyteller of anything I can think of (and as I recall there's a design connection why that is).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Most of the fantasy things you can do in D&D you can do in Shadowrun without too much effort (although megadungeon style play might not work great) but it would be tough to do a lot of the real cyberpunk style stuff in D&D.

Can you give an example?

 

[Reynard]

Can you give an example?

Unless you are playing in a D&D world specifically designed to include it, there really isn't a hacking equivalent. And D&D worlds don't usually include analogs to cyberpunk megacorporations (although I like using the Dragonmarked Houses of Eberron in that capacity). Come to think of it, Eberron includes a lot of analogous elements, like warforged and body modification and disruptive magitech.

 

[Umbran]

(although megadungeon style play might not work great)

What? The Renraku Acrology it right there!

but it would be tough to do a lot of the real cyberpunk style stuff in D&D.

Most of the "real cyberpunk stuff" is setting and adventure design, not rules.

 

[Umbran]

Unless you are playing in a D&D world specifically designed to include it, there really isn't a hacking equivalent.

Shrug - hacking is the subsystem I personally have most often seen abandoned in cyberpunk games, because hacking is great in fiction, but puts too much focus on one player for too long to be great in a tabletop game.

And D&D worlds don't usually include analogs to cyberpunk megacorporations (although I like using the Dragonmarked Houses of Eberron in that capacity).

That's a setting thing, not a rules thing.
Megacorps are just noble houses vying for control - it's just Game of Thrones with a bunch of LEDs stuck on 'em.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Mechanically, early SR is probably closest to Storyteller of anything I can think of (and as I recall there's a design connection why that is).

I only played it once but the old d6 Star Wars felt closer to SR. I vaguely remember pools of d6s.

(Of course, I so disliked the WoD rules that when I ran the setting I used SR2 mechanics.)

In '89 SR was pretty notable. There were three axis to manage success: pool size, target number and success threshold. Within that, you had a bit more confidence around successes due to bell curves of pools of dice. (It also created weird points where some weapons would almost always deal a Moderate wound but were almost impossible to be lethal with one shot.)

SR2 went to a fixed 2-success threshold and I think it was SR4 that went to fixed target number 4. The standard threshold was absolutely necessary to avoid the issue above. I am not sure I entirely liked the fixed TN but it did make it easier to learn for newbs.

 

[MGibster]

Shrug - hacking is the subsystem I personally have most often seen abandoned in cyberpunk games, because hacking is great in fiction, but puts too much focus on one player for too long to be great in a tabletop game.

From your mouth to God's ear. We tried allowing Netrunners in Cyberpunk but after a few attempts we just stopped. In addition to the rules being convoluted, there was too much downtime for everyone else while the runner and the GM played their little game. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think I've ever seen a Decker in a Shadowrun game. That applies to the first few editions of Shadowrun. At least in 5th edition, they made it so the Decker had to be physically on location to do their thing.

 

[Umbran]

At least in 5th edition, they made it so the Decker had to be physically on location to do their thing.

And had things they could do to help the party in meatspace. Locking up smartguns and the like is useful.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Unless you are playing in a D&D world specifically designed to include it, there really isn't a hacking equivalent. And D&D worlds don't usually include analogs to cyberpunk megacorporations (although I like using the Dragonmarked Houses of Eberron in that capacity). Come to think of it, Eberron includes a lot of analogous elements, like warforged and body modification and disruptive magitech.

I can see the former, but honestly, a game set in a setting where merchant houses have become the real powers wouldn't have to look much different from megacorporations in practical terms. You couldn't use an extent setting as-is in most cases, but it wouldn't be a big reach when starting from the ground up.

 

[Thomas Shey]

And had things they could do to help the party in meatspace. Locking up smartguns and the like is useful.

The combination of that and putting decking on the same time frame as everything else made a big part of the problems with it go away in my limited experience.