D&D 5E Why is "whimisical and dark" humour needed to offset the dark and depressed theme of Out of the Abyss?

[Corpsetaker]

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times and I'm not really sure why the humourous part needs to be added as an offset? Was this an actual reason that was given by Wizards of the Coast or was this an assumption made by a few posters?

Player's usually add enough humour whether it's in game or out to really any game so I'm not sure why the store needs it in order to offset the dark and depressed feel of the underdark.

 

[Beleriphon]

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times and I'm not really sure why the humourous part needs to be added as an offset? Was this an actual reason that was given by Wizards of the Coast or was this an assumption made by a few posters?

Player's usually add enough humour whether it's in game or out to really any game so I'm not sure why the store needs it in order to offset the dark and depressed feel of the underdark.

The idea that whimsy means light hearted has been bothering me, I think the more appropriate term might be humourlessly macbre. Think more Beetlejuice than the nonsensical logic in Alice in Wonderland.

 

[Remathilis]

Caveat: I haven't read OotA yet.

The Underdark has a reputation of being the Ultimate Dungeon; a place where PCs are stranded far away from the civilizations they know and surrounded by evil denizens. Now toss demons (the ultimate bad guys) into the mix. The temptation to turn it into a literal bloodbath would be great; if everything is going to kill you, why talk to any of them? Eventually, the adventure would descend into one battle after another with no chances (or need) to role-play. Adding some of these stranger encounters breaks up the monotony, throws the PCs off their game. Is that myconid friend or foe? How do we handle a sentient gelatinous cube? It gives them something strange, alien, and not-necessarily hostile to interact with. Most importantly, it give a variety of feels to the adventure and keeps it from descending into room-after-room of evil things trying just to kill you.

Secondly, the sub-theme that keeps getting lost is MADNESS. The demon lords are literally driving the denizens mad. And madness is most frightening when its unexpected. I mean, if all Demogorgon's presence did was make drow more bloodthirsty and sadistic, you haven't done much to make them scary, you've just guaranteed there are no survivors in sortie's with them. But if it makes some sadistic, some babbling-crazy, and some suffer odd-but-non-violent delusions, then it becomes harder to gauge your foe. Is the duergar going to invite us to tea or cave in our skulls? Are those kuo-toa priests hostile or just eccentric? Is the strange drow who wants to serve us stew giving us Cream of Wild Mushroom or Cream of Wild Mage? The strange and whimsical encounters keep PCs guessing.

In the end, you need both to keep the uncertainty. Otherwise, its very easy to assume the demon lords are the big target and every creature between you and them (be it demon, drow, derro, or what) is just collateral damage or an obstacle in the way and you can nuke them all and let Kelemvor sort them out. You COULD still play it like that, but methinks some of these whimsical encounters are allies and that might just make fighting a CR 26 ram-demon a bit harder later on...

 

[Morrus]

Does this same question need a third thread?

 

[Nikosandros]

Does this same question need a third thread?

Is that a whimsical question or a grim question?

 

[Wik]

Does this same question need a third thread?

He'll keep asking until he finds someone who agrees with him.

 

[JeffB]

I agree with him.


But I find the discussion whimsical

 

[Rabbitbait]

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times and I'm not really sure why the humourous part needs to be added as an offset? Was this an actual reason that was given by Wizards of the Coast or was this an assumption made by a few posters?

Player's usually add enough humour whether it's in game or out to really any game so I'm not sure why the store needs it in order to offset the dark and depressed feel of the underdark.

I'm sure it doesn't *need* to be added. Is it a good idea to add it? I think so - it'll add confusion and insanity to the mix, along with humour , a dark twisted humour. If it was just wall to wall evil then I, for one, would think it sounds very dull. As it is, I want to buy this *because* of the whimsy.

 

[Wik]

I'm sure it doesn't *need* to be added. Is it a good idea to add it? I think so - it'll add confusion and insanity to the mix, along with humour , a dark twisted humour. If it was just wall to wall evil then I, for one, would think it sounds very dull. As it is, I want to buy this *because* of the whimsy.

Exactly. Wall to wall evil is no good. Same with wall to wall insanity, or darkness, or even whimsy. You NEED a good mix of themes to make a commercially viable adventure, film, book, whatever.

The game is built on three tiers - combat, exploration, and social. If you only have one overarching theme - "evil horror" or whatever - then it colours everything. And it means that the social and exploration tiers of the game can suffer as a result, because there's fewer "points of light" and fewer points where those methods of game input are practical.

***

On to the point at hand - I'd say that, well, YES. Something needs to be added to a dark and depressing theme to soften its impact. Does it need to be whimsical or humour? No, not really. But something to break up the evilness is necessary. I've played games that encourage only a dark and depressing tone (say, Call of Cthulhu), and, while they work for a session, few people want to commit to a full campaign of it in my experience.

Compare that to games like WHFRP, a dark horror game with a heavy dose of whimsy, and a lot of people get really addicted to it in a campaign setting. Or a game like Shadowrun, which has a LOT of hidden jokes in the text and is a pretty funny game at times... despite a rather pessimistic and cynical tone to the game.

Contrasting two themes really helps accentuate an overarching tone. Or, to quote Woody Allen - "Tragedy plus time equals Comedy".

 

[Minigiant]

Fine since this topic exists.

Because the Underdark is silly and makes no dang sense. It makes no sense to be existing as is outside of divine intervention. You can't look deep into the area even for a tiny bit and must wear blinders the whole way.

It is dark and depressing with multiple warring and violent factions sealed up in a scary land and they somehow aren't all dead or someone has conquered the place.
So either everyone is mad and too loony to have dominated the others
OR every Underdark resident is too much or a moron to realize the state of affair and change it
OR Underdark residents are straight up inhuman and don't act like people at all
OR they enjoy the dark and are so whimsical that they can't actually seriously change the status quo.
Unfortunately WOTC wont the make their drow, duergar, deep gnomes, mind flayers, and beholders be naturally insane, capricious, or alienminded.

So no WOTC didn't have to add whimsical element. It wasn't not needed. But something had to be added. Horror. Madness. Politics. Large Scale battle. Or Whimsy. Something as a distraction to keep you from looking to hard and realizing how unrealistic the Underdark is even for fantasy and how it's not that way on purpose like a joke.