D&D 5E Why is WoTc still pushing AP's when the majority of gamers want something else?

[Corwin]

Laugh Charles Rampant laughed with this post.

There was nothing funny about my post so I'm not sure why you are laughing. If I was laughing then you hitting the laugh button would make sense, but I wasn't. Not sure if you've had a look but it's been changed to " laugh with X", not "laugh at X".

Is this line of posts really just a (not so) subtle way of fishing for XP, since a laugh is still worth a point? Otherwise, wouldn't it make sense to address your concerns via PM?

 

[ccs]

Laugh Charles Rampant laughed with this post.

There was nothing funny about my post so I'm not sure why you are laughing. If I was laughing then you hitting the laugh button would make sense, but I wasn't. Not sure if you've had a look but it's been changed to " laugh with X", not "laugh at X".

We're laughing because your posts/rants/reasoning etc amuse.
Doesn't matter if that wasn't you're intent.....
And you amuse because you're one of those who take this stuff way to seriously & don't stop.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Basically what Wizards is most likely going by is their PHB sales numbers. They figure everyone who plays probably has a PHB. I can tell you for a fact that is false.

These are some pretty big assumptions. Do you have any evidenced to support your claim?


Oh, and you're taking the laugh button too seriously (ironic that).

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I want a "Shake My Head at this post" button.

But since this would get treated the same as the dreaded "thumbs down" button on other sites, it would not happen. Probably the same reason "Laugh at" was changed to "Laugh with". I had not even realized that Morrus had changed that til today.

 

[Jester David]

I want a "Shake My Head at this post" button.

But since this would get treated the same as the dreaded "thumbs down" button on other sites, it would not happen. Probably the same reason "Laugh at" was changed to "Laugh with". I had not even realized that Morrus had changed that til today.

It makes senses to clarify that it is "laughing with" rather than "laughing at" and not the opposite of giving xp.
You *can* rate threads though, and I recconend doing so. It's at the top right of the threads, just below the names and a couple lines below the page numbers.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

A lot of this wouldnt need to be discussed if WotC included Mechanics and Crunch involved with the flavour of the AP like they said they were going to during the lead up to 5e (eg horror flavour mechanics and crunch in COS) but then again a lot of what we were told we were going to get never eventuated.

There's crunch in all of the APs, including horror guidelines in CoS. They opted for a role-playing approach to setting a mood rather than hard horror rules that have mechanical effects, which is in line with keeping things simple.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I run a homebrew setting. I also buy APs, or at least LMoP, HotDQ, OotA, and CoS. I'm actually going to pull elements of OotA and CoS into my Adventures in Middle-Earth campaign.

I find APs far more useful than campaign settings for homebrew. In fact I think they are the most valuable books for a home-brew DM that WotC could produce, except perhaps shorter adventures that I could more easily mix and match...

OK. Now I want that.

And you have that. Check out the dozen or so adventures released for Adventurer's League that are related to each AP. Available cheap at DMsGuild.

And in response to another comment, unlike many DMsGuild products, these are approved for Adventurer's League play.

 

[BookBarbarian]

And you have that. Check out the dozen or so adventures released for Adventurer's League that are related to each AP. Available cheap at DMsGuild.

And in response to another comment, unlike many DMsGuild products, these are approved for Adventurer's League play.

I had forgotten about those adventures. I even ran the first one for the Out of the Abyss AL season. It was released for free on Draogn+. It was a great little adventure.

 

[discosoc]

I think they are listening, TBH. The first round of AP's were kind of full-featured leveling experiences that take you from 1-15+ over the course of a singular story. Then they sanctioned something a bit different in the form of OotA, where there was room for expanding on the story and "filling in the blanks," so to speak. Now we're seeing stuff like Ravenloft and SKT, where the story itself is not meant to be a singular experience, but rather something closer to a story thread or diversion to use in an existing campaign.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Actually sales numbers only show just that, sales numbers.

Do you think WoTc know the ratio between all D&D players vs how many are buying these AP's?

The answer is no they don't. Also, they don't know what new players would buy had they been given the option.

And?

I don't think it's relevant, nor are they ever going to be able to determine the answers to those questions.

Instead they have business projections and goals based in part on earlier releases. As long as they are meeting or exceeding those goals, it's a success. What other people "might have bought" isn't really relevant.

Their job is to make stuff people will buy. Mission accomplished.

That doesn't mean they can't or won't look for other opportunities. But their strategy has been spelled out in detail several times in the last couple of years. Two APs a year, with some new game material as well (spells, races, class options, monsters, rules options, whatever). They said that was the plan, and they've followed that plan. The fact that they are still hitting or exceeding their sales goals makes it a good plan and a success.

Now they've started supplementing that once/year with an additional non-AP book, plus I keep reminding everybody that they do release a dozen or so short adventures via DMsGuild that tie into the AP.

You may not like their business plan, fair enough. But it's certainly not a secret, and they have stuck with it and I don't think, considering the success it's had, that it will change. To tie it back to your original post, they aren't "shoving APs down your throat," they are simply following the plan they announced way back in 2014.

The question is - what might be the next non-AP book release? And will they move to two non-AP books per year?

Note that a few things from UA have already made it into published books, I expect that clues may be found in the UA articles in the next 6 months or so.

 

[Eubani]

There's crunch in all of the APs, including horror guidelines in CoS. They opted for a role-playing approach to setting a mood rather than hard horror rules that have mechanical effects, which is in line with keeping things simple.

Not what we were told we were going to get. And the volume and type that we have got is laughable.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Not what we were told we were going to get. And the volume and type that we have got is laughable.

I agree it wasn't exactly what I expected, but as I've played with the 5e rules and then have seen what they have provided, it makes sense to me. I can certainly see how folks that are looking for more rules want something different. But I'm finding that in general less is more.

Of course, this is coming from a guy who has a 108 page House Rules PHB...

But a lot of it is the SRD with my house rules worked into it, not just 100% new or modified rules. And I just came across my rewritten 3/3.5e rules in the attic this evening. A fun(ny) read.

Speaking of more crunch, if you haven't read Ed Greenwood's All Things Through the Bright Flames on the DMs guild yet, I highly recommend it. Great story, fun to read, and Realms crunch at the end for the new stuff mentioned in the story. Which leads back to what I mentioned earlier somewhere - the new Realmslore and crunch could be coming via Ed and DMsGuild rather than WotC (which makes me very happy). Although he has a disclaimer at the front that says it shouldn't be considered canon.

 

[Benji]

This has already been explained to you before. DM'sGuild material is not legal in AL nor is it allowed at lot's of tables. Not to mention the fact that loads of it is broken, not play tested, and not official. Fan made material has been around for a long time, but now just because Wizards creates a site for it that it's suddenly become well accepted. Nothing has really changed in this department. Fan made material is still looked at cautiously and not accepted by loads of DM's.

But...your argument is that most people homebrew. Why would anyone care if it's AL legal if, as you claim, no one is playing it?

I might misunderstand you might be saying 'most people only accept their own homebrew' in which case, that'snot wizard's problem to fix.

I also still don't understand how your claim that most people build their own settings would be helped by specific regional guides for settings they aren't using.

 

[Shayuri]

Seems to me that most people who do homebrews import/appropriate stuff from published source material all the time. And a lot of games I play that are in homebrew settings adapt published material and modules with great frequency.

Granted, this is one individual's experience, and not necessarily reflective of the greater gaming community...but given how much work developing a setting is, and running a game is, I suspect it's fairly common practice to find ways to use quality published material and tweak/adapt it rather than start from scratch every single time.

Can't decide if troll thread or not.

 

[Parmandur]

Seems to me that most people who do homebrews import/appropriate stuff from published source material all the time. And a lot of games I play that are in homebrew settings adapt published material and modules with great frequency.

Granted, this is one individual's experience, and not necessarily reflective of the greater gaming community...but given how much work developing a setting is, and running a game is, I suspect it's fairly common practice to find ways to use quality published material and tweak/adapt it rather than start from scratch every single time.

Can't decide if troll thread or not.

That's not just idiosyncratic experience, that is precisely what WotC has found in their surveys when discussing their release strategy as the most common playstyle by a large margin.

This is not a troll thread, insofar as [MENTION=6776548]Corpsetaker[/MENTION] seems to mean what she or he says: though it remains unclear what she or he hopes to accomplish by constantly complaining and weaving conspiracy theories...

 

[Charles Rampant]

Provoking laughter is, apparently, not one of his objectives.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Provoking laughter is, apparently, not one of his objectives.

"Why do you keep laughing? I'm not making a joke!"

 

[Parmandur]

Provoking laughter is, apparently, not one of his objectives.

Achievement, if not objective, certainly. These threads are hilarious.

 

[Istbor]

True, how does one rate a thread poorly, when a lot of entertainment is achieved from the reading?

I can only say that the original claim falls on it's face. As others have pointed out. Why would a person who homebrews (I am one such person, but have been getting into the APs a bit more for the first time ever) want a settings or region guide when I have already built that on my own? I can certainly understand borrowing ideas to fill out a world, but I would not likely buy a book to do that.

I think WotC have a pretty good handle on what is going on in their market currently. They seem to be doing quite well, and I have been pleased so far with what they have put out. As well as the pacing.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Not what we were told we were going to get. And the volume and type that we have got is laughable.

What specifically were we told we were getting? I suspect in most cases like this, we got what they said, but it wasn't what you (general you) were expecting or wanting. That doesn't meant they didn't do what they said they would.

For example, if they said there was gonna be rules in the APs and there are rules in the AP, just not what you were wanting, that doesn't mean they lied. One I hear a lot is "They promised us modular options and lied." Well, they do have modular options in the DMG and PHB.

It's one thing to say "I didn't get what I was expecting" and another to say "they didn't do what they told us they were gonna do."