Why no FR-style campaign books for the World of Greyhawk

[GhostInTheMachine]

I was under the impression that one of the reasons many people liked Greyhawk so much was that it didn't have as much published support as FR. This allowed DMs to flex their creative muscles a little bit more, and flesh out the world as they see fit. If you want a campaign setting that lists every butcher/inkeeper/bum on the street in a nice stat block, and has a history going back, in detail, for umpteen thousand years, pick up FR (or how about the old DnD Gazateer books). If you want a campaign in which the outline is provided, but there are still spots on the map labled "Here there be dragons," then go Greyhawk.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I believe Kenzer is going to put out a version of Greyhawk for Hackmaster.

Not really Greyhawk, it will no doubt be 'kewler' and full of lame jokes.

And now that I look it up, yes, it's called "Greyhack".

Sigh. I usually really don't wish any company ill, but in this case, I have to make an exception - I really wish Kenzer would just go out of business and stop ruining people's memories like this and their version of Mystara...

It won't ruin anyone's memories unless they let it. Your books will not be struck blank by a HackMaster version of Greyhawk.

 

[storyguide3]

I was under the impression that one of the reasons many people liked Greyhawk so much was that it didn't have as much published support as FR. This allowed DMs to flex their creative muscles a little bit more, and flesh out the world as they see fit.

I have also found it odd in the past that Greyhawk fans said on the one hand that the strength of the setting was the lack of confining "official" detail while at the same time clamouring for more detail and supplements. I can only assume that either:

a) this represents two distinct camps within Greyhawk fandom, or
b) what is really wanted is a happy medium in which there would be more suplemental material, but not as much as has been produced for FR.

I would tend to think that (b) would be closer to the truth, but one never knows.

Perhaps the most fascinating thing that I have observed (and it goes on in both Greyhawk and FR camps), is when someone will post their own "lore" about the setting to a mailing list, only to be attacked for straying from canon. I find this especially odd in relation to Greyhawk, what with the oft-stated goal of "making Greyhawk your own".

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I'm almost positive I read somewhere that one of the designers said that they had made Greyhawk the default campaign because it was in 1st Ed and that they had specifically not printed much information about the world to allow DMs to customize their campaign. Therefore anyone who hadn't played 1st or 2nd ed would only know what was in the PHB and the perhaps the D&D Gazetter. They would know city names and maybe some leader names, but could make up their own history. If a DM wanted an excuse to have a city of Dragons, they just say that in their Greyhawk there is one. Therefore no fighting over what is "canon" or what is "standard" in all campaigns.

I believe this is why they insisted in putting all the detailed information in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer. That way, that one campaign would have a standard history and details without starting any arguements about "If Greyhawk is the default campaign and they released a book that says that last year in Greyhawk all the dwarves were wiped out in a freak accident, then I have to make it a house rule that Dwarves are still alive in my game."

 

[Enceladus]

I wish WoTC's would publish some source books for Greyhawk, I know I'd buy them. But then I'm a pretty serious collector, not everyone is like me.

 

[d30]

Living Greyhawk Gazetteer is a wonderful source book, but more encyclopedic than sourcebookish. You won't find stats for NPCs, but you will get very detailed write-ups on each country, government, geographic region descriptions, and good historical information.

I think one of the problems with producing NEW Greyhawk stuff is that it has been farmed off to the RPGA for Living Greyhawk, and the direction the campaign takes is being steered by regional Triads. I recall there being some disagreements between what a traid wanted to do and something Erik Mona wanted to publish in the Living Greyhawk Journals.

There is a ton of Greyhawk stuff out there for the taking if you want to look at the LG regional sites.

Try http://www.living-greyhawk.com for a jumping off point. Chances are the area you want to explore has a region that is creating adventures and evolving the storyline.

I know the regions I am near put out IC monthy (or so) dispatches on what is new in the region. Current news in Highfolks is the pulling back of the Knights of Veluna, Shield Lands has rumors of Pholtus being named the patron of Bright Sentry which is causing quite a stir.
I am sure all the regions have this sort of thing going on.

 

[Leopold]

Re: Re: Why no FR-style campaign books for the World of Greyhawk

Greyhawk seting didn't sell that well for WOTC, I remember they released a series of Greyhawk books it turns out the books didn't sell that well for them. The problem was WOTC/Hasbro wanted something that would go mainstream, but Greyhawk fail to capture mainstream fandom, they don't know some of us do like Grayhawk, because you don't always have Harpers spying on you all the time, or Elimister appearing in the game trying to talk to you about the greater balance.

because the books sucked to be quite honest. the Against the giant series was horribly written and should've never been done. The author prolly never even looked at the friggin module! The PC's were flat, boring, and typical. No depth to them and the encounters were "I shoot him with a bow, he dies" deal! No wonder they didn't do anything with GH after that!

 

[Erekose]

I just find it very strange that WotC would publish something as niche as Ghostwalk but then actively oppose the publication of Greyhawk books which I would argue have a much wider appeal (i.e. generate more sales and, therefore, more profit for WotC).

(Don't get me wrong I bought and like Ghostwalk!)

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Try http://www.living-greyhawk.com for a jumping off point. Chances are the area you want to explore has a region that is creating adventures and evolving the storyline.

The problem with the RPGA development of Greyhawk, is that most people can't get the adventures. And you won't find famous NPC stats in the online free stuff. You can only order modules for the region you live in, so while I can download all the neat stories and flavor about Geoff, I can only order the modules if I live in the corresponding real-world region (mid-Atlantic states of the US) and run them at some sort of game day.

Then, of course, the module quality varies widely. Sometimes one module contradicts another. That happens where there isn't one unified voice directing the campaign.

And even if you can get the modules for a region, major events sometimes happen at convention "Interactives" which aren't ever published.

For playing a "global campaign" - no problem. But for non-RPGA-playing fans of Greyhawk, it just means that there is not a source for consistent world information & product.

I think storyguide3 got it right:

a) this represents two distinct camps within Greyhawk fandom, or
b) what is really wanted is a happy medium in which there would be more suplemental material, but not as much as has been produced for FR.

I would tend to think that (b) would be closer to the truth, but one never knows.

A few more books would be nice. And a kick-ass map. Then a few adventures, either stand-alone or short series of modules. Not mega-adventures (we have that, with RttToEE). But a modern series that becomes a classic, like GDQ (giants), A series (slavers), or even Saltmarsh trilogy have become classics.

 

[JeffB]

I too would pay my $40 bucks for a FR style GH book w/out batting an eyelash..hell I'd buy two! The LGG is a good product but lacks as a true setting sourcebook..it's all bone and no meat.

I actually loved most of the GH '98 products. The Adventure Begins is perhaps my fave "setting book" in the line. It is an excellent read and just the type of product I like: full of adventure hooks, holes for the DM to fill, etc. Another of Roger Moore's great works. The Player's Gude and the last "true" GH product, Slavers, were pretty good too.

But as one poster mentioned, Sean's treatment/add-on to the Giant series was...well...less than great. I think Seans' (and Monte's for that matter) style fits much better w/ "higher fantasy" settings like the Forgotten Realms. I was really dissapointed in RttToEE and TSB. Though as I said, Sean's work on Slavers was pretty good (along w/ Chris)

Gary.Carl. Roger. I don't care..I'd love to see one or any combination of 'em write a new full color GH hardcover.