Why no love for WotC? (and why now?)

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think most of the anti-WoTC fervor is simply the dislike of the top dog. It's a really common thing...

 

[Ron]

I've never quite understood this. For me, the addition of the battlemat, tactical combat, and (especially) the miniatures has enhanced my ability to imagine and envision the action.

Surely I'm not the only one who enjoys looking at the battlemat, finding my character, and "projecting" myself down to eye-level involvement with the scene? I recently ran a game which began in media res with my PCs fighting a pair of warforged titans (love or hate Eberron, the Warforged Titan is a beautiful model), and I could feel my heartbeat increasing as I looked at the setup and imagined being down there, on the sands, with these massive things just towering over me.
[...]

Although I understand your view, to me it is the opposite. To see the minis over the table just spoil me the fun of imagine the scene. I just keep the impression that my mini is fighting another. I examine the mini and I only see a painted model. To me is easier to extrapolate with a picture or a verbal/written description. A friend of mine plays with a battlemat, but he uses counters as he has the same problem I have.

 

[Buttercup]

I don't have a hate-on for WotC. I still buy their products when they interest me, it's just that more and more frequently their products don't interest me.

• I'm not interested in Eberron, because it seems too influenced by manga and comic books, neither of which appeal to me.
• I'm not interested in psionics or planar stuff.
• I prefer a more tradional game, that takes its antagonists from real world myth and culture, rather than bizarre, over-the-top monsters.
• I have absolutely no interest in collectible minis, nor in the skirmish game.

I realize that lots of people do like these things. Heck, WotC does their market research, so if they're producing this sort of product, it's because they know it will sell like gangbusters. But it has become quite clear that I'm not their target market. On the other hand, Green Ronin and Necromancer continue to produce products that do appeal to me, so in the long run, all WotC is doing for me is saving me money.

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

I am not sure if there is any hatred for WotC. I do know, from personal experience, that their recent products have been lagging behind third party producers in content and sometimes in production values.
The "environment" series has been done and redone by others prior to WotC, as an example. Green Ronin, Necromancer Games, Malhavoc etc. have similar quality products with a greater degree of creativity (maybe due to a lack of beauraucracy/need to meet the "generic" expectations"). The products I am looking forward to, all seem to be third party such as the recently purchased Shackled City compilation, the Wilderlands boxed set by Necromancer etc. Offhand, I do not think I am going to pick up any upcoming WotC products, not because of any percieved hatred, but more due to a lack of interest.

 

[Steel_Wind]

3.5 enough said.

Their recent product run haven't been that great either. Frostburn, Sandstorm, Complete Series (except for Complete Adventurer), Heros of Battle have ranged from less than ordinary to hideous. Their only book that was good after 3.5 (the only one I bought) was Unearthed Arcana.

Perception is everything isn't it? I do think its important that we not project our own dissatisfaction generally and assume it's true.

I bought and really liked Frostburn, Sandstorm and Heroes of Battle. I thought they were very well done. (Lords of Madness was well done too). Stormwrack? I'm still going through it - jury is still out but so far I am enjoying it.

ButUnearthed Arcana? No. Unearthed Aracana seemed to me like a colleciton of Dragon articles. I hated it and there was exceedingly little in there I would ever permit in my campaign.

To each his own.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Steel_Wind
ButUnearthed Arcana? No. Unearthed Aracana seemed to me like a colleciton of Dragon articles. I hated it and there was exceedingly little in there I would ever permit in my campaign.

One of my friends bought it because he loved all the options, though ironically he never uses the book for anything. The only thing our group uses is the Weapon Groups. The one thing I like in the book is the Paragon classes, that a race can further improve on its own natural abilities, something it really can't do ordinarily.

It has a lot of ideas, but most of them seem to be for powergamers, like Gestalt, spell recharging, etc.

 

[Melkor]

Personally, I have several gripes about WoTC, but not to the point of avoiding product. I buy what I find will be useful in my games, and don't by what I don't think I will use. That means that lately, my money has been going to third party companies instead of WoTC.

I really wish they would have released non-collectable mini's...at least some type of 'encounter packs' that would allow you to amass a large collection of orcs, undead, kobolds, or whatever without getting a bunch of the same minis that you won't use (and that you won't be able to trade for anything worthwhile because everyone has a ton of them).

I wish they would have kept producing stuff for the Star Wars RPG.

The last book I looked at in the D&D line was the DMGII, and I'll probably pick that up. Prior to that, I bought Lords of Madness. Most of the other books looked like they were full of mostly new Feats and Prestige Classes which isn't something that interests me a great deal.

To end on a positive note, I am, however, pleased with what has been released for the D20 Modern Line.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I think WotC is a great company. With the core rules and all the free content they have on their site you could run a campaign from level 1-15. A haphazard, disjointed campaign, but you could still do it.

I also wish they'd enter the ENnies. I wanna tussle with the big dogs!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't think there is anything new or pronounced about those don't like wizards or their products. There are:

1) a bunch of people whose d20 company is feeling the squeeze,
2) nearing saturation of the market leading to a fatigue,
3) players & dms that didn't like the perceived heavy handedness in the revision,
4) determined malcontents.

I think the list is too simplistic - I don't fit there. I welcomed the 3.5 revision and, IMO, it's not responsible for much new WotC hate, other than reprinting 3.0 sourcebooks.

I agree with Beaver, however, that many of the new products have been either horrible, unbalanced or not very useful.

 

[the Jester]

I really like much of the stuff that WotC puts out. No hate here. Between the minis, the environment books, the Complete series, Lords of Madness, etc, I think they're putting out a great number of really good products. There are some loser books in the mix- for instance, I was really turned off by the 'Races' line- but overall I think they're doing a great job.