D&D (2024) Why No Monster Creation Rules in D&D 2024?

[Thommy H-H]

So, here's something I bodged together yesterday, basically for my own purposes, but it might be useful for others idk. Basically, I was curious about how the 2025 MM creatures would translate into the 2014 DMG creation rules, and whether their calculated CRs would be consistent enough to draw up a conversion table. And, would you believe it, they sort of were! Table is below. Here are some notes:

• My methodology was very simple: I just took three or four monsters of each CR more or less at random and ran them through the 2014 DMG calculations. Some worked out a little bit higher or lower, but the calcuations are never exact anyway...I took an average, when in doubt. There was more variation at higher CRs, I found, but I was still satisfied that they mapped well enough.
• Up to CR 5, the numbers were the same! Which is handy! So if you're making a low-level creature, you can just use the 2014 method as is.
• There obviously aren't some monsters at certain higher CRs, so I filled in the gaps, following what seemed like a sensible progression. I marked those in italics.
• The way to use this is, if you're making a monster for the 2024 rules, you work it out using the 2014 DMG, then compare whatever CR you get in the end to this table. So if you made a CR 10 monster (2014), that's about the same power level as CR 9 (2024), so you should put its CR at 9 rather than 10. Or, if you're using a pre-2024 monster, you might want to substitute its written CR for the 2025 CR indicated on this table in your encounter calculations, or tweak some of its stats to bring its power level up to match its written CR (extra hit points works well).
• Again, this is a quick and dirty conversion table. It's not playtested, I haven't worked out all the offensive and defensive CRs and compared them; I just took a sampling and checked the numbers. I've modified a couple of pre-2024 monsters to bring them up to the right CR, and they compare favourably with monsters in the 2025 MM.

2025 CR	2014 CR (DMG)
1/8	1/8
1/4	1/4
1/2	1/2
1	1
2	2
3	3
4	4
5	5
6	7
7	8
8	9
9	10
10	11
11	12
12	13
13	14
14	15
15	18
16	19
17	20
18	21
19	22
20	23
21	24
22	25
23	26
24	27
25	29
26	30
27	31
28	32
29	33
30	34

 

[Reynard]

So, here's something I bodged together yesterday, basically for my own purposes, but it might be useful for others idk. Basically, I was curious about how the 2025 MM creatures would translate into the 2014 DMG creation rules, and whether their calculated CRs would be consistent enough to draw up a conversion table. And, would you believe it, they sort of were! Table is below. Here are some notes:

• My methodology was very simple: I just took three or four monsters of each CR more or less at random and ran them through the 2014 DMG calculations. Some worked out a little bit higher or lower, but the calcuations are never exact anyway...I took an average, when in doubt. There was more variation at higher CRs, I found, but I was still satisfied that they mapped well enough.
• Up to CR 5, the numbers were the same! Which is handy! So if you're making a low-level creature, you can just use the 2014 method as is.
• There obviously aren't some monsters at certain higher CRs, so I filled in the gaps, following what seemed like a sensible progression. I marked those in italics.
• The way to use this is, if you're making a monster for the 2024 rules, you work it out using the 2014 DMG, then compare whatever CR you get in the end to this table. So if you made a CR 10 monster (2014), that's about the same power level as CR 9 (2024), so you should put its CR at 9 rather than 10. Or, if you're using a pre-2024 monster, you might want to substitute its written CR for the 2025 CR indicated on this table in your encounter calculations, or tweak some of its stats to bring its power level up to match its written CR (extra hit points works well).
• Again, this is a quick and dirty conversion table. It's not playtested, I haven't worked out all the offensive and defensive CRs and compared them; I just took a sampling and checked the numbers. I've modified a couple of pre-2024 monsters to bring them up to the right CR, and they compare favourably with monsters in the 2025 MM.

2025 CR	2014 CR (DMG)
1/8	1/8
1/4	1/4
1/2	1/2
1	1
2	2
3	3
4	4
5	5
6	7
7	8
8	9
9	10
10	11
11	12
12	13
13	14
14	15
15	18
16	19
17	20
18	21
19	22
20	23
21	24
22	25
23	26
24	27
25	29
26	30
27	31
28	32
29	33
30	34

Cool. Thanks for the effort.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

So, here's something I bodged together yesterday, basically for my own purposes, but it might be useful for others idk. Basically, I was curious about how the 2025 MM creatures would translate into the 2014 DMG creation rules, and whether their calculated CRs would be consistent enough to draw up a conversion table. And, would you believe it, they sort of were! Table is below. Here are some notes:

• My methodology was very simple: I just took three or four monsters of each CR more or less at random and ran them through the 2014 DMG calculations. Some worked out a little bit higher or lower, but the calcuations are never exact anyway...I took an average, when in doubt. There was more variation at higher CRs, I found, but I was still satisfied that they mapped well enough.
• Up to CR 5, the numbers were the same! Which is handy! So if you're making a low-level creature, you can just use the 2014 method as is.
• There obviously aren't some monsters at certain higher CRs, so I filled in the gaps, following what seemed like a sensible progression. I marked those in italics.
• The way to use this is, if you're making a monster for the 2024 rules, you work it out using the 2014 DMG, then compare whatever CR you get in the end to this table. So if you made a CR 10 monster (2014), that's about the same power level as CR 9 (2024), so you should put its CR at 9 rather than 10. Or, if you're using a pre-2024 monster, you might want to substitute its written CR for the 2025 CR indicated on this table in your encounter calculations, or tweak some of its stats to bring its power level up to match its written CR (extra hit points works well).
• Again, this is a quick and dirty conversion table. It's not playtested, I haven't worked out all the offensive and defensive CRs and compared them; I just took a sampling and checked the numbers. I've modified a couple of pre-2024 monsters to bring them up to the right CR, and they compare favourably with monsters in the 2025 MM.

2025 CR	2014 CR (DMG)
1/8	1/8
1/4	1/4
1/2	1/2
1	1
2	2
3	3
4	4
5	5
6	7
7	8
8	9
9	10
10	11
11	12
12	13
13	14
14	15
15	18
16	19
17	20
18	21
19	22
20	23
21	24
22	25
23	26
24	27
25	29
26	30
27	31
28	32
29	33
30	34

Thanks! As far as methodology, did you run both versions (2014 and 2024) of the same creatures through the creation rules?

 

[Thommy H-H]

Thanks! As far as methodology, did you run both versions (2014 and 2024) of the same creatures through the creation rules?

I didn't, but I've been building monsters with the 2014 rules for the whole edition and I've reverse engineered a significant number of the previous MM entries at various times, so I'm happy they work (with a couple of caveats, exceptions, and minor tweaks). When I said the ones I chose were "more or less at random", I did tend to pick monsters I knew pretty well and had modified before.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I didn't, but I've been building monsters with the 2014 rules for the whole edition and I've reverse engineered a significant number of the previous MM entries at various times, so I'm happy they work (with a couple of caveats, exceptions, and minor tweaks). When I said the ones I chose were "more or less at random", I did tend to pick monsters I knew pretty well and had modified before.

Another quick question. Did it seem like the AC/Attack Bonus/Save DC shifted with the hp and damage? Ie, replacing those lines on the table would more or less approximate what they seemed to be doing with 2024? Or are those just for the hp and DPR? I'm considering trying to make some line graphs and seeing if I can derive a curve of values.

 

[Thommy H-H]

Another quick question. Did it seem like the AC/Attack Bonus/Save DC shifted with the hp and damage? Ie, replacing those lines on the table would more or less approximate what they seemed to be doing with 2024? Or are those just for the hp and DPR? I'm considering trying to make some line graphs and seeing if I can derive a curve of values.

My impression is that the lines on the table - assuming (and it's a big assumption!) they're using something that approximates that exact table still - have just had the base HP and DPR values shifted to fit the new scale. But there is a bit of variation in the higher CRs I checked, which suggests to me that some features may now be weighted differently. There are also some that have slipped a bit over the course of the edition anyway, such as Nimble Escape, which makes more sense as +2 to AB and AC than +4, so my advice is to work out CRs to your satisfaction as you normally would, and just substitute the equivalent 2025 CR at the end. I think it's basically impossible to reverse engineer full monster creation rules from what we have, because even with the table, it tells you nothing about what a monster's actual HP and DPR is 'meant' to be for that CR (which is a mistake many people make).

As I said, my table is a very basic "like for like" comparison made partly out of simple curiosity! I think it works well enough for those who confidently use the DMG monster creation rules already. I'm not sure it says much about the actual strengths of monsters, and it's not intended to imply anything about encounter building.