D&D (2024) Why no new packs since late September?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
As I remember, your claim was that if you can use a 5e with a onednd character, so you can use a 3.5 character. So that they work on a totally different scale (BAB) seems to be negligible...
No. YOUR claim was that "it works" was the criteria for using something in 5.5. I simply pointed out that 3e characters use the same basics for d20+bonuses to beat AC or DC, etc, so those technically "work" as well. So if the criteria is "it works," then 3e characters are in the same boat. Personally "it works" doesn't cut it for me. I never claimed that they were equal and in FACT said the opposite and that the 3e disparity was far more extreme.
 

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No. YOUR claim was that "it works" was the criteria for using something in 5.5. I simply pointed out that 3e characters use the same basics for d20+bonuses to beat AC or DC, etc, so those technically "work" as well. So if the criteria is "it works," then 3e characters are in the same boat. Personally "it works" doesn't cut it for me. I never claimed that they were equal and in FACT said the opposite and that the 3e disparity was far more extreme.

If by far you mean comparing apples to oranges, then I agree...

And yes, a 5e and a onednd character will work together. THE POWER DIFFERENCE IS NEGLEGIBLE.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
If by far you mean comparing apples to oranges, then I agree...
How is 1d20+bonuses > or = AC being a hit(5.5), apples and 1d20+bonuses > or = AC being a hit(3e), oranges? Seems like both formulas are the same to me. They would work together, even if the numbers plugged in are different. They're just two different types of apples.
THE POWER DIFFERENCE IS NEGLEGIBLE.
To you.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I found that mark was very effective in our test at level 6-7 for two very important reasons. The first is that it's easier to get more attacks now with the light weapon property or PAM making that extra d6 add up. HM lasts 1 hour & a level 6/7 ranger has 4 level 1 slots 2 level 2 slots/4 level1 3 level 2 slots respectively. That's up to 6 hours & you start hitting forced march after 8 hours... Step up the pace a bit & let those marks spread across multiple combats if you want to cast spells on top of them by saying things like "no bob I have mark running, maybe instead of pushing for us to take a short rest every fight or so you should start learning to psace yourself better & dialing back on the warlock nova/monk stunning strike/etc".
You don't get 3rd level spells until level 9.

You are dedicating 3 of your first level slots to Hunter's mark if you are doing too short rest per long rest. Until level nine, that leaves you only 0-4 more spell slots for the day.

Most campaigns do not last past level 9 or 10. That means for the most part you won't be able to fully utilize this ability for most of the campaign.

As a whole it is a lot weaker than the Tasha's substitute Primal awareness.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
You don't get 3rd level spells until level 9.

You are dedicating 3 of your first level slots to Hunter's mark if you are doing too short rest per long rest. Until level nine, that leaves you only 0-4 more spell slots for the day.

Most campaigns do not last past level 9 or 10. That means for the most part you won't be able to fully utilize this ability for most of the campaign.

As a whole it is a lot weaker than the Tasha's substitute Primal awareness.
1669760894128.png

and my ranger player had three second level slots at level seven (as I seem to have said). The 2014phb & expert playtest packet both list hunters mark as a level 1 spell.

Why is that bold bit relevant?

My campaigns tend to run into low to mid teens & a level 6-7 playtest with a couple 3.x modules made for a good test since it was far enough past the intro levels for players to have their characters starting to come into their own but not so far into classes that players might have enough trouble jumping into a fresh pc with so many fresh but not yet settled toys to cause a distortion if Alice lucked into the swing better than Bob.

So again make those HM casts last by keeping up the pace & pushing short rest spamming players to pace themselves rather than going nova then pushing for a short rest at your expense.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
View attachment 268288
and my ranger player had three second level slots at level seven (as I seem to have said). The 2014phb & expert playtest packet both list hunters mark as a level 1 spell.

Why is that bold bit relevant?

My campaigns tend to run into low to mid teens & a level 6-7 playtest with a couple 3.x modules made for a good test since it was far enough past the intro levels for players to have their characters starting to come into their own but not so far into classes that players might have enough trouble jumping into a fresh pc with so many fresh but not yet settled toys to cause a distortion if Alice lucked into the swing better than Bob.

So again make those HM casts last by keeping up the pace & pushing short rest spamming players to pace themselves rather than going nova then pushing for a short rest at your expense.
5e was designed around taking 2-3 short rests. Short rests are still 1 hour.. So a ranger would be expected to use 3-4 first level Hunter's Marks a day.
 


That's very obviously to anyone following this conversation, false. My bringing up the scale multiple times as having meaning does not equal "seems to have no meaning." I mean, seriously dude.

I was not reading every post of yours, just responses to me.
So when I said, it was working, you said 3.5 characters work too. Then you said, the power difference between onednd and 5e characters is big.
So no, I don't think your scale in any way reflects the actual facts.
So we just need to agree to disagree here.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Actually, no.
In it was just inclusivity, they would have just removed the -2s like they were already doing.
The hell are you talking about? There were two races with -2s, and the complaints were about quite a lot more than orcs and kobolds.

If I were wrong, Tasha's wouldn't have also allowed you to pick whatever proficiencies you want, use custom lineage to represent your character however you want, they wouldn't have removed a bunch of "culture as inborn trait" language from the game, and they wouldn't have made videos talking about how in dnd the race writeup doesn't actually reflect racial norms, but rather the classic adventurer of that race, which is clearly nonsensical and designed to distance their depiction of the races from concepts of genetic essentialism.
They added floating +2/+1 to allow for goblin paladins. The change was to allow DMs and Players to create the race/class/culture combos they wants without feeling like the combos were weak or underpowered.
This is such a silly argument to make. They changed how races worked because one of the biggest inclusivity complaints was that the cultural traits and static ASIs represented racial/genetic essentialism, which is a racist concept used in the real world to justify atrocities.

Do you not remember the online discourse directed at wizards at the time leading up to Tasha's? d

it happened in response to inclusivity based complaints.
It isn't that massive.

Like I said, rangers do not have the spell slots to put up 2 spells often in a 6-8 encounter day until hid-high levels. They'll burn though all their spells fast. And the primal spell list doesn't have that many spells you would stack within the short time. So it really doesn't do anything until level 9 when you get 3rd level spell slots and at that point most campaigns are over.
You're thinking level 11 or 12, first of all, but no. They have just as many slots as Paladins, and the primal spell list has plenty of very good concentration spells. But even if we only look at damage dealing, the Ranger can now go nova, and stack weapon attack spells (which all require concentration) on top of hunter's mark.

If an hour duration is short in your experience, I doubt that is a common experience.

Also, there is no assumption of a 6-8 encounter day, that isn't the norm, it's literally just the number of encounters that is suggested to deplete the group's resources when using only fairly mild encounters.

3-4 encounters is almost certainly at least twice as common, and 1-2 at least as common as that.
ALL concentrationless HM does is keep rangers from making checks to lose concentration on HM. Decent buff for melee rangers. Almost ignorable to ranged rangers.
Any ranged ranger that never has to make concentration checks is either prone to ignoring concentration spells, or has an easy mode DM.

Beyond that, again, it allows a DPR focused ranger, especially the twf rangers which aren't even all melee with this UA, to throw up HM and any of ensnaring strike, hail of thorns, barkskin, summon beast (they clearly state that the list is only PHB spells, and there's nowhere else summon beast would go), spike growth, pass without trace (usually kept up until the first blows land, and HM can now be put up ahead of time as well, for a deadlier ambush. whether it can be used in combat past that point to any benefit depends on how stealth is run), enlarge/reduce (I once had a party go all in on the two-rapier ranger/monk with haste, enlarge/reduce, heroism, aid, from the party and HM from the ranger herself, and let her hold a chokepoint while the team performed a ritual. I threw 6 deadly fights at the ranger by herself aside from the occassional heal between fights. She held. It was rad as hell. I gave her a bonus level as a reward for extreme bravery under fire), and of course all those level 3 spells you want to pretend don't exist in order to make your wrong point.
So like what I said to Maxperson, It's looks cool on paper. Until actual play then its a big fat meh.
In your game, you certainly seem to have not used it well enough to see it's value, or perhaps your DM just runs things in a way that you've somehow got 6-8 encounters per day, and they never happen 2+ in a single hour.


I don't think that is especially representative.
 

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