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why not a grand mixology game?

Is it ME? Is it something I SAID? These are the same people who don't do supers games for too-too long, and are a bit leery of star wars... but I'm just not sure these boards would fare much better. I've tried pbp offers on at least one forum, and possibly this one as well.

? Any

every group is different. If your group doesn't want to play anything but D&D, while you want to explore other options, you should consider contacting other gamers in your area online. Non-D&D games and other genres can be a tough sell for many gamers though, so keep that in mind. In the last year I have played the following settings with various systems:

-fantasy (using savage worlds)
-gothic horror (2e ravenloft)
-dark fantasy (using shadow sword and spell)
-horror in colonial america (using colonial gothic)
-boston organized crime (crime network)
-counter terrorism (terror network)
-horror (horror show)
-ancient rome (servants of gaius)

There are probably more than that (and the last four are my own games) but you get the idea. However in order to play all these different genres and systems I've had to be part of multiple groups.
 

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fireinthedust

Explorer
Have you played Torg. It is a cohesive multi-genre setting. You could easily do a d20 torg by taking various d20 rule books and using them for each of the different realms. If you want multi genre d20, i would start there (just keep in mind, torg itself is not a d20 game.)


yep, remember it from what, 20 years ago?

Torg, Rifts, and systems like true20 or M&M depending on the setting. Gamma World is supposed to be similar, but I never got a chance to try it. Shadowrun seems neat (though I remember not caring for the magic system), and many folks tand by it.

I'd want to make up a setting, though. That's just good fun, imho, and something I find I need the freedom to do if I'm going to GM a game.

But I guess what I'm saying is that it'd be fun to expand the equipment from d20 games to make a big setting using that stuff. Torg could do it. Maybe the premise of several genres criss-crossing would allow people focus, but I don't think it's familiar enough they'd go "oy, let's play that".


Heh, maybe if I made up a game name and Brand, so they think it's a familiar system, when really it isn't...
 

Loonook

First Post
yep, remember it from what, 20 years ago?

Torg, Rifts, and systems like true20 or M&M depending on the setting. Gamma World is supposed to be similar, but I never got a chance to try it. Shadowrun seems neat (though I remember not caring for the magic system), and many folks tand by it.

I'd want to make up a setting, though. That's just good fun, imho, and something I find I need the freedom to do if I'm going to GM a game.

But I guess what I'm saying is that it'd be fun to expand the equipment from d20 games to make a big setting using that stuff. Torg could do it. Maybe the premise of several genres criss-crossing would allow people focus, but I don't think it's familiar enough they'd go "oy, let's play that".


Heh, maybe if I made up a game name and Brand, so they think it's a familiar system, when really it isn't...

I think it would be great to run a game where humans have 'dug too deep'. Any sufficient tech is magic and vice versa. I played my Decades games in Modern using that approach... The Germans using the Solution to cover up their taking of various mystics and using it against the Allies, warforged SS agents battling Americans. A small group of scientists at Los Alamos begin delving into Esoterica assisted by an alien who arrived to Earth and suffered in servitude during the Antebellum... And then there were the Amish who kept Loki bound somewhere in PA....

Overall allowed me to mix all sorts of settings into one game with recognizable history.

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

fireinthedust

Explorer
I think it would be great to run a game where humans have 'dug too deep'. Any sufficient tech is magic and vice versa. I played my Decades games in Modern using that approach... The Germans using the Solution to cover up their taking of various mystics and using it against the Allies, warforged SS agents battling Americans. A small group of scientists at Los Alamos begin delving into Esoterica assisted by an alien who arrived to Earth and suffered in servitude during the Antebellum... And then there were the Amish who kept Loki bound somewhere in PA....

Overall allowed me to mix all sorts of settings into one game with recognizable history.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Neat!

I think the Warforged design really lends itself well to WW2 designs, at least as drawn by Mike Mignola in Hellboy!

Speaking of which, there was both high tech alien stuff and magic in that session. Did they ever explain how the two cross over? Or did they just throw those problems out and hand-wave the whole thing?
 

Loonook

First Post
Neat!

I think the Warforged design really lends itself well to WW2 designs, at least as drawn by Mike Mignola in Hellboy!

Speaking of which, there was both high tech alien stuff and magic in that session. Did they ever explain how the two cross over? Or did they just throw those problems out and hand-wave the whole thing?

There were people who "crossed over" (a silvered minigun
did some damage in one outing) but godlike AIs are similar to mystic beasts... Also there were the social arguments and slurs bwtween creatures who adopted human ways and those who stayed to the Old Ways... will discuss when I am off my mobile.

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 


But still! No one else is geeking out about the potential? guh.
I like non-traditional fantasy as much as the next guy. I like horror games. I like sci-fi games. I like weirdo gonzo games.

That said, the potential in what you described sounds more like the potential to really crash and burn hard than it does to be fun. I think you're not making enough allowance for the notion that many genre fans have that "weird is cool to a point; too weird is not cool anymore, though."
 

Dykstrav

Adventurer
But still! No one else is geeking out about the potential? guh.

Howdy Fire! As far as players that detest mixed genres, I am one of "those guys," so let me share some of my thoughts on "the potential."

My single biggest objection to playing such a game is, well... Gamers. They are a lot with diverse tastes and varying levels of maturity, and most of the ones that I know wouldn't agree on any point of contention within this setting. Think of it as another version of "we can't have nice things." here's why.

If one character is a relatively "normal" human sorcerer, another is an elven jedi knight, another is a klingon gunslinger from a wild west setting, and another is a radiation-mutated vampire hunter from a post-apocalyse world, we've got some serious issues with what those players expect and want from the game. The first basic question to address is why the hell this group would've gotten together in the first place, much less go on adventures together. You've got to come up with something to get this party together, and it has to be very good to come across as something more than a contrivance. Or you could just hand-wave the cross-genre issues (as many games of this type have done, as far as my experience with them goes), which is just as dissatisfying. There are already plenty of problems with getting players to work together, even when it's an explicitly stated expectation of the setting/genre or the group's preferred style of play. How many orc barbarians threaten violence against fellow player characters, or halfling rogues merrily steal from their fellow party members while the players smugly retort that they are "just playing the character?" That sort of thing will be intensely magnified as you include more and more options.

And that's just the first session.

Have you ever seen a nerdfight around a gaming table? I don't mean a discussion/argument over the spirit versus the letter of a rule, or a quibble over a bit of lore established in canon published game products versus a semi-canon novel from the 80's. One of those things where people argue "cool" as a point of merit?

Should a katana be able to cut through a tank?

Of course! Katanas are cool, and that's exactly the sort of thing that happens in anime, video games, and comic books all the time!

If the rules say it can. If it's not expressly listed as an option, you can't do that.

The GM should roll the dice for everything instead of setting firm expectations of genre or setting hard limits about what can happen in his game. He's probably going to be passive/aggressive about it and tell the player that he can do it, but needs to roll some insanely high number to pull it off.

Of course not! They're just swords. I'd be glad to go get one of my katanas for you and let you see how much sheet metal you can punch it through.

Can you imagine the sheer scope of running a game where the standards for character creation include multiple points of "cool?" Just imagining someone bringing in a mage from Monte Cook's World of Darkness and arguing its points with someone playing a spellcaster under the Pathfinder rules makes my head hurt. That's not a game that I'm interested in playing.

At a certain point, I'd ask myself why I'm playing this game instead of doing something slightly less obnoxious, like just about anything else that has a recreational purpose. Fortunately, I've had enough experience with various games over the years to know quite firmly where my lines are on these sorts of things.

I also wouldn't like the idea of having to effectively playtest a brand-new system while were in the middle of learning it. Although most d20 games are relatively compatible (at least on the most basic levels), there are just far too many variables to account for before playing. Can a jedi use a lightsaber to deflect a scorching ray? Can a western-era gunsmith craft UV-enhanced bullets to affect vampires like sunlight? Does a mage have to make sanity checks for encountering a Deep One that they summon? I'm just not interested in that level of crossover discussion over so many points, especially since the vast majority will likely boil down to GM fiat.

I've harped on quite a bit about this particular point... But all these things boil down to making a player's choices matter less. If the GM handwaves or makes on-the-spot calls about too many things, it doesn't matter what my character does. I'm just there to roll the dice.

At a certain point, I ask myself, "What the hell is this game about?" If the answer takes more than a sentence or two to explain to someone, it's too complicated.
 

scourger

Explorer
...the potential in what you described sounds more like the potential to really crash and burn hard than it does to be fun. I think you're not making enough allowance for the notion that many genre fans have that "weird is cool to a point; too weird is not cool anymore, though."

Yeah, I find a little weird goes a long way.
 

fireinthedust

Explorer
Think of it as another version of "we can't have nice things." here's why.


Dykstrav: your entire post is about 31 flavours of awesome, but that line is my favourite!

"Dang it people, this is why we can't have nice things!"


Seriously, though, I wasn't thinking about the entire kitchen sink. For example, I was thinking picking a spellcasting system for the setting, not having both Pathfinder and McWoD.

But good point: what to do when the genres and materials literally clash! The Jedi lightsabre vs the Scorching Ray is a tricky question. I have two answers:

1) He-Man's sword would have deflected the ray as easily as a laser blast, and in their setting Jedi supposedly can do both blasters and force lightning, with the Force standing in for magic. Ergo, as the GM, I'd rule it would work.

2) However, I'm currently avoiding Star Wars because I think I've reached saturation for the franchise, and I'd disallow Jedi anyway! (possibly because I wanted so much from the series and it just isn't coming... like what the prequels could have been, or the novels, or how the canon is so crowded by going back in time and adding stories it's unrealistic, or how Darth Vader is some kind of uber messiah figure, etc, etc.)


Your point is more along the lines of a literal kitchen sink, though, as opposed to a specific setting with its own bounds that works

(more in a bit, brb)
 

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