The Shaman
First Post
Good advice here.
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Why oh why do they hate my NPCs?
- Thread starter Sir Robilar
- Start date
pawsplay
Hero
Oh, yeah. I still to this day treasure my success in passing off a fake Gandalf, actually an evil spellcaster, who after tricking the PCs into sacking a church and enslaving the almost-annoyingly-pure-hearted cleric and turning her into a pathetic puppet, became the campaign's main bad guy. By that, the very disparate PCs were basically in a pact of vengeance against him and more than willing to brave any risk to take him down.
More recently, I introduced an Aasimar paladin as an ally to the party in my Pathfinder game. While at first one of my players bemoaned the presence of a LG "baby-sitter" I set this guy up as a laconic, horrifying violent force of justice, and made it clear that actions that violated his principles would cause him to walk away; actions that seriously violated his principles would not receive a stern warning. By the time he had coup-de-graced a few baddies and cut down in cold blood an enemy agent that asked them to surrender the players stopped regarding him as a nuisance, and more like a walking weapon. A very ... self-willed weapon. There was a lot of fun as they tried to manipulate him out of the way of their plans, without pissing him off so much he simply abandoned them. Several times they used spells or bluffs to distract him while they took care of various sorts of business, such as looting tombs, violating the rules of parlay, and other run-of-the-mill PC behavior. Good times. By the time they faced down a demi-gods avatar in battle, shoulder to shoulder with him, he had graduated to "grudging respect" and afforded the same to the PCs.
ExploderWizard
Hero
That which is designed to be liked will be scorned. I would advise against creating NPCs who are automatically friendly to the PC's. Just create personalities with motivations and personalities of their own.
Don't work too hard trying to make an npc well regarded by the party. It will happen naturally through play or not. If it does and the PCs do actually like an NPC, you know it will be genuine.
Led Zeppelin didn't make music that everybody liked, they left that to the Bee Gees.
Don't work too hard trying to make an npc well regarded by the party. It will happen naturally through play or not. If it does and the PCs do actually like an NPC, you know it will be genuine.
Led Zeppelin didn't make music that everybody liked, they left that to the Bee Gees.
Jeff Wilder
First Post
We even have a joke about it in our just-started Whiterock Castle PFRPG campaign. There's a guard captain named Morath who has been nothing but honest and helpful so far. The joke is that clearly we cannot trust him, and it doesn't help that his name is "Morath," which is obviously a villain's name.
But it's just a joke, and we don't actually hate him or distrust him.
I DM'd a game like that before. I had created an NPC sorceress that was going to tag around with the party for a while in an attempt to learn from the PC sorcerer, who was a couple of levels higher than her and starting to gain a reputation.
Since she was hot (max Charisma) and her name was Malvellis, they naturally all assumed she was evil in disguise. Because MAL is a prefix for something bad, of course. However, she was helpful in the first several encounters, and the PC cleric ended up saving her later on when she was felled by one of the bad guys. (her miniature was a well endowed & scantily clad woman as well)
I think I had come up with part of the name Malvellis through the google translation tool, and had translated the English word into some foreign language equivalent and it turned out to be close to Malvellis.
And, of course Morath is evil - it's inconceivable that he's not.
Last edited:
FiddleSticks96
First Post
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Sorry, I just find that hilarious because of one thing.
Recently, I started running out of random names to give random NPCs that didn't matter. These NPCs are simply the background characters that my PCs think they should interact with just to see how long it takes me to run out of names.
In response to this, I started naming all these largely useless and unimportant NPCs "Bob".
It turned into an on running gag, eventually leading us to collectively know these useless NPCs as "Disposable Bobs". We call female disposables Bobbeta.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
In my current campaign there is a villain who sits on the city council of Sharn (big city in Eberron). He's a manipulator, a vainglorious bastard, and a big name in a huge criminal cartel. He has taken notice of the PCs as they have made themselves noticeable and so he has offered them work. But he is an absolute ass to them at every opportunity. Nevertheless, the work he offers is very lucrative. And even though the PCs don't know it yet, every time they help him they are causing more chaos in the city. He sees them as expendable, but they think they need him because of all the great jobs he offers them (which end up supporting his ring of extortion, gambling and other sorts of vice). So they like him.
Meanwhile there is a good member of the council who is just trying to do what's best for the city, root out corruption and crime, and support all the right causes. Her means are unconventional, but they work more often than not. So far the PCs have tried to steal from her, undermine her, and do the bare minimum to succeed at any task she offers them. It isn't so much that she doesn't pay them well. She does. But she's also plucky and kind of expects the PCs to be willing to do things without asking for a reward, even though she plans to offer one anyway. Needless to say, the players aren't too fond of her.
I haven't spent a huge amount of time developing these characters outside the game. I often come up with a simple outline for each game session and then run things organically from there. But I've found the evil conniving councilor is a lot more fun for both me and the players to have around so naturally I've given him a little more attention. I guess it doesn't hurt that most all the players are neutral on the good-evil axis and more of a mercenary bent.
Meanwhile there is a good member of the council who is just trying to do what's best for the city, root out corruption and crime, and support all the right causes. Her means are unconventional, but they work more often than not. So far the PCs have tried to steal from her, undermine her, and do the bare minimum to succeed at any task she offers them. It isn't so much that she doesn't pay them well. She does. But she's also plucky and kind of expects the PCs to be willing to do things without asking for a reward, even though she plans to offer one anyway. Needless to say, the players aren't too fond of her.
I haven't spent a huge amount of time developing these characters outside the game. I often come up with a simple outline for each game session and then run things organically from there. But I've found the evil conniving councilor is a lot more fun for both me and the players to have around so naturally I've given him a little more attention. I guess it doesn't hurt that most all the players are neutral on the good-evil axis and more of a mercenary bent.
Thunderfoot
Hero
When making n NPC I do three things:
1) Simplistic background - name, race, sex, occupation, classes if any, immediate family if any.
2) Basic physical description - hair, eyes, ht, wt, scars, deformities, mannerisms, etc.
3) Take notes when the characters interact for the first time -
This is where I think I end up with memorable NPCs. You never have a second chance to make a first impression, so if it goes south, scrap em and start over. Give an excuse as to why they aren't there anymore - killed, moved, eaten by his children, whatever and move on. If they on the other hand like him/her, clue in to why. Flesh this out and THEN build a more in-depth NPC.
An example from play - From the leader of the Ebony Horse Clan (part of 12 Norther Tribes)
Yang Po Ng - To those on the outside, this horse master is a symbol of all that is bizarre about his clan. He considers himself an extension of his horse in battle, and his horse is his most trusted adviser everywhere else. None can question the strength or bravery of him or his horse as he leads his people from the front in almost all conflicts and his skill is such, no one has ever seen him unhorsed. (Think the OOTS ruler of Sapphire Guard type, this is a work in progress, I will define more later.) The name of the horse is Xian Ma - (SHE-en MAh) Literally - Mr Horse or Sir Horse.
THAT was the brief description my fellow DM and I (we ran 2 DMs to split the workload both at the table and away from it) came up with - He blossomed into an eccentric rider who had an odd sense of humor, a fierce determination and a horse that the other tribe's leaders tried their darnedest to ignore, but when a 26 hand horse is standing in the middle of a tribal tent whinnying when asked questions by his rider (which was also fun to role play)... Well, you get the idea.
The party LOVED this guy, almost as much as the leader they first met and who took them under his wing. However another set of leaders that spoke as a unit (2 twins and their grandfather) didn't fly so well (which is ironic considering they were a flying-mounted tribe). So we scaled their roles back and let them develop over time - eventually, they worked, but our original idea flopped. However, since we only had a little blurb committed to them, a re-write didn't cause a huge unbalance or upset of game play or suspension of disbelief. AND it didn't upset either myself or the other DM that our creation was ruined.
While I believe it is the sole responsibility of the DM to design the world or adjudicate its surroundings, there is certainly no reason not to pay attention to what the players think they see and the way the interact to make the experience more real to them. While not a total sandbox (shudder at the thought of players controlling the world) it gives them some room to feel a part of a living breathing world.
1) Simplistic background - name, race, sex, occupation, classes if any, immediate family if any.
2) Basic physical description - hair, eyes, ht, wt, scars, deformities, mannerisms, etc.
3) Take notes when the characters interact for the first time -
This is where I think I end up with memorable NPCs. You never have a second chance to make a first impression, so if it goes south, scrap em and start over. Give an excuse as to why they aren't there anymore - killed, moved, eaten by his children, whatever and move on. If they on the other hand like him/her, clue in to why. Flesh this out and THEN build a more in-depth NPC.
An example from play - From the leader of the Ebony Horse Clan (part of 12 Norther Tribes)
Yang Po Ng - To those on the outside, this horse master is a symbol of all that is bizarre about his clan. He considers himself an extension of his horse in battle, and his horse is his most trusted adviser everywhere else. None can question the strength or bravery of him or his horse as he leads his people from the front in almost all conflicts and his skill is such, no one has ever seen him unhorsed. (Think the OOTS ruler of Sapphire Guard type, this is a work in progress, I will define more later.) The name of the horse is Xian Ma - (SHE-en MAh) Literally - Mr Horse or Sir Horse.
THAT was the brief description my fellow DM and I (we ran 2 DMs to split the workload both at the table and away from it) came up with - He blossomed into an eccentric rider who had an odd sense of humor, a fierce determination and a horse that the other tribe's leaders tried their darnedest to ignore, but when a 26 hand horse is standing in the middle of a tribal tent whinnying when asked questions by his rider (which was also fun to role play)... Well, you get the idea.
The party LOVED this guy, almost as much as the leader they first met and who took them under his wing. However another set of leaders that spoke as a unit (2 twins and their grandfather) didn't fly so well (which is ironic considering they were a flying-mounted tribe). So we scaled their roles back and let them develop over time - eventually, they worked, but our original idea flopped. However, since we only had a little blurb committed to them, a re-write didn't cause a huge unbalance or upset of game play or suspension of disbelief. AND it didn't upset either myself or the other DM that our creation was ruined.
While I believe it is the sole responsibility of the DM to design the world or adjudicate its surroundings, there is certainly no reason not to pay attention to what the players think they see and the way the interact to make the experience more real to them. While not a total sandbox (shudder at the thought of players controlling the world) it gives them some room to feel a part of a living breathing world.
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