why paladins (smite) are powerful: action economy efficiency

[doctorbadwolf]

I can somewhat forgive this though, given that Paladins have the most roleplaying restrictions of any class, besides maybe Warlock. The party needs some reason to keep that stubborn bastard around.

Fascinating! What sort of restrictions are you talking about? I don't recall seeing any in the PHB!

On top of all that, the interaction of smite with the crit rules means a paladin wanting to be a little more conservative in their use of spell slots can wait till they score a 20, then turn the smite into a double-damage blast.

And, on top of that, there is no per-turn limit to the use of smite, unlike most such features. So a paladin needing to pull out all the stops can use a smite on every hit; up to twice per round with Extra Attack, or even three times if you can arrange a bonus action attack (e.g., with Polearm Master).

I've a TWF Vengeance Paladin in my Eberron game, and even if I hadn't houseruled TWF Fighting Style onto the Paladin for her, she'd wreck face with Hunter's Mark, Oath of Emnity, and Smites-saved-for-crits.

 

[Ancalagon]

Is this actually news to anyone? This has been true since the edition first launched.

Yes, the first edition paladins sacrificed spell slots to smite...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes, the first edition paladins sacrificed spell slots to smite...

??? I think something is getting lost in communication.

Ever since the launch of the current edition under discussion, paladins have been massively overpowered due to the way in which their smite ability breaks the normal action economy limit. Under normal circumstances, characters are limited to spending one spell slot per round. Paladins can spend their spell slots twice as quickly, which is why they're powerful. They can burn through their resources faster than anyone else.

My question for you is, what is the point of this thread? Everybody in this forum is aware of how powerful paladins are. This "news" is several years out of date. Are you looking for solutions, on how to bring paladins back into line with regular characters? And if so, do you want solutions in terms of DM styles, or actual house rules?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Fascinating! What sort of restrictions are you talking about? I don't recall seeing any in the PHB!

Ah, finally! I knew eventually somebody would address that bombshell in the OP.

(Although it might move the conversation along more quickly if it were done so more directly, instead of disingenuously.)

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Death is the solution to all problems.

No paladin- no problem.

That is a reasonable solution. Let someone make a fighter with a crusader background, or a cleric with the soldier background, and there's really no reason to keep the paladin class in the game.

 

[Ancalagon]

??? I think something is getting lost in communication.

Ever since the launch of the current edition under discussion, paladins have been massively overpowered due to the way in which their smite ability breaks the normal action economy limit. Under normal circumstances, characters are limited to spending one spell slot per round. Paladins can spend their spell slots twice as quickly, which is why they're powerful. They can burn through their resources faster than anyone else.

My question for you is, what is the point of this thread? Everybody in this forum is aware of how powerful paladins are. This "news" is several years out of date. Are you looking for solutions, on how to bring paladins back into line with regular characters? And if so, do you want solutions in terms of DM styles, or actual house rules?

It should be self evident that not everyone has started playing 5e at the same time, and thus certain particularities may have evaded us. By starting a discussion, I can get feedback to see if my insight was indeed correct.

My question to you therefore, is what is the point of your post?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It should be self evident that not everyone has started playing 5e at the same time, and thus certain particularities may have evaded us. By starting a discussion, I can get feedback to see if my insight was indeed correct.

Well, if you say so.

My question to you therefore, is what is the point of your post?

I was just curious as to why this thread exists. Most such threads usually end with a question of some sort, but this one did not. If your goal was to see who agrees or disagrees with your assertion, then I would have expected a simple poll.

If you want actual discussion about this topic, then my suggestion is that the smite ability is un-salvageable in its current form, and the best course of action would be to re-write it entirely in order to de-couple it from the attack action.

 

[CleverNickName]

I can somewhat forgive this though, given that Paladins have the most roleplaying restrictions of any class, besides maybe Warlock.

/popcorn

I'm playing a Warlock (Hexblade) in my Friday gaming group, and I'm playing a Paladin (Ancients) in my wife's Saturday night gaming group. And it's always fun to read the comments about them on gaming forums.

Pass the popcorn? I brought Milk Duds to share.

 

[Blue]

I tried using those spells early on in my Paladin's career, but the concentration aspect of it caused me to lose some of them before I hit, wasting the damage/slot entirely. It became better to just wait until I hit and use smite, then risk the loss of the spell before I could deal damage with the slot. Remove concentration and I think you'll see more use from those spells.

You can cast then on your round as a bonus action and attack. Do your movement before casting. If you miss all of your attacks is about the only case you have to worry about potentially losing it.