Why people like to play OD&D (1974)

[Philotomy Jurament]

5. Only Thieves could climb!

You should check out Robert Fisher's page (link above), especially the article, about thief skills.

I think that 3E encourages rules mastery -- think about the "behind the curtain" stuff, et cetera. I'm not saying that as a bad thing. Rules mastery is desirable ("rules playing" may not be, but that's a different topic). I think that many people, even ones who have played OD&D or other forms of out-of-print D&D when they were younger, often have some misunderstandings about the rules, why they exist, et cetera. I think that a rules mastery/"behind the curtain" understanding of OD&D rules goes a long way towards answering common criticisms of the system.

 

[diaglo]

I guess what I'm saying is that being an OD&D DM is a skill that, if done right, makes for a truly awesome game. It can also make for several hours of frustrating tedium.

I agree that a system with lighter rules (like OD&D) benefits from a good DM. It allows a good DM to shine, and it emphasizes the flaws of a poor DM. However, I also believe that running a system with lighter rules is one of the BEST ways for a DM to learn and improve, precisely because he's making judgments and excercising those "DM muscles." The same is true for players, to a lesser extent.

slight correction. OD&D doesn't have DMs.

i am a referee.

 

[Garnfellow]

I happen to like the tactical feel of 3.5 even though I know exactly what you mean. Too many combats in 2E and older games, in my experience, were "I swing, I miss; he swings, he misses," -- little incentive for moving about the battlefield. If there were a way to preserve the advantage that a larger opponent has minus the AoO complexity, I would be interested in seeing what that looked like.

A really interesting game from the late 70s that combined the simplicity of OD&D with tactical, grid-based movement is the Fantasy Trip, which is being discussed over in the thread Anyone Remember Melee?.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I have friends who were huge Fantasy Trip players back in the day and we may run a few sessions of that while my DM energies recharge. Sucks that only one guy has the books though so most of us will have no idea how thing work in this system.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I wonder if the old DnDers could make a comment on an idea of mine. How would 3.5 DND work if you scrapped all of the minature based combat manuvers, AoO, and the feats that specifically go with them. Would that go a long way to returning towards the "feel" of ODnD?

It would probably get you closer, but I'm not sure you could stop, there. You might need to address the skill system, too. (Also, note that scrapping rules on feats, skills, etc. doesn't mean you can no longer do those things -- it's just that you and the DM decide if, when and how they can be done.) And you might want to address level advancement, because different classes in OD&D advance at different rates. I'm not sure how the changes would affect CR/EL and all that.

It would probably be easier to just play OD&D, IMO. Castles & Crusades is similar to what you're describing, too, but all the work is done for you. (It's kind of like an older version of D&D built using the OGL -- for example, high AC is better, like d20.)

The reason I ask is a disturbing thing came up in our 3.5 game. Our DM made a ruling on gaze attacks. It was clearly contradictory to the rules in the DMG. It bothered me a bit that I felt so dependent on the rule books (not normally a rules lawyer). Sometime I just wish for a simpler system.

Well, my advice is to try one out for a while and see if you like it.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Just a thought...does True20 have a more OD&D feel than 3.x?

To me, True20 feels more like d20 than like OD&D. However, True20 is definitely a slimmer, faster-playing variant of d20, in my experience. I like True20 a lot -- it has some very nice touches. I'm using it for a series of low-magic historical mini-campaigns (e.g. Greek, Viking, et cetera).

 

[BSF]

Just a thought...does True20 have a more OD&D feel than 3.x?

Not particularly. Obviously there are elements that might be closer in ambiance to OD&D than a D&D3.5 game. Especially if you add in the splat books. But there are also elements to True20 that feel very distinctly different.

 

[BSF]

I guess what I'm saying is that being an OD&D DM is a skill that, if done right, makes for a truly awesome game. It can also make for several hours of frustrating tedium.

I agree that a system with lighter rules (like OD&D) benefits from a good DM. It allows a good DM to shine, and it emphasizes the flaws of a poor DM. However, I also believe that running a system with lighter rules is one of the BEST ways for a DM to learn and improve, precisely because he's making judgments and excercising those "DM muscles." The same is true for players, to a lesser extent.

A good rules light game also needs a higher level of mutual trust than a highly codified ruleset does. I remember lots of arguments about the way something would work, or not work. Heated arguments.

But when you have mutual trust between players and the DM to play a good, fun game, you don't need as many codified rules. IT can be a lot of fun.

 

[Odhanan]

Just a thought...does True20 have a more OD&D feel than 3.x?

I really don't think so. But I must tell you that, even though I have a copy of True20 and read its contents, it never really "got me", so to speak.

I must say this thread really makes me want to play the old editions of D&D (and rather ironically, more the Rules Cyclopedia version at the moment). I'd run a game right now.

Also, the whole point about OD&D emphasizing what excellent and ugly about the referee's way of running the game is spot on. I completely agree.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I must say this thread really makes me want to play the old editions of D&D (and rather ironically, more the Rules Cyclopedia version at the moment). I'd run a game right now.

Nothing wrong with the Rules Cyclopedia version of D&D. One of my most fun and successful campaigns was a BECMI/RC game. The PCs got to name level before the campaign dried up because everyone moved. My wife still has her magic-user, though.