why play a evoker since complete arcane?

[Staffan]

Specialist wizards need to work more like domains, IMHO. It needs to give them powers no other wizards have, related to their sphere. Have exclusive spells or powers.

Psions work like that in 3.5e: there's a pretty large general psion list of powers, and each discipline gives access to another 1-4 powers per level.

 

[DM_Matt]

Why are we debatingt whether CA made Blaster Evokers obsolete with Blaster Conjurers when it also introduced the Warmage which beats them both hands down?

 

[Thanee]

Because the Warmage does get some few tiny disadvantages to compensate?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Plane Sailing]

In 3.5e conjuration bypassing SR made sense because all of the conjuration damage effects were acid (which isn't an energy type anyway, it's a chemical!). the only exception I can see is incendiary cloud (which could be seen as being like white phosphorous) Evocation didn't get acid, it got the fire/electricity/sonic/cold stuff.

CA messes up this principle, assuming that "Conjuration" is what avoids SR rather than thinking about the kind of attack form which is created by the spell. It looks to my like lazy design that didn't ever get to grips with the apparent principles behind 3.5e.

Ah well.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If only...

Range, my dear chap. The damaging conjuration spells in CA are almost uniformly of short range.

1st level: 5 Lesser Orbs - Short range, 1 target, ranged touch attack, no SR
4th level: 6 Orbs - Short range, 1 target, ranged touch attack, no SR
4th level: Blast of Flame - 60' cone, Ref half, no SR (max 10d6)
5th level: Arc of Lightning - Short range, line between 2 creatures, Ref half, no SR (max 15d6)
5th level: Vitriolic Sphere - Long range, 10' burst, Reflex negates, no SR

That's it. The only long range spell has a Reflex negation save.

Cheers!

internet problems are fun, now that I'm back I'll point out what's already been pointed out short range spells are the norm for direct damage spells. Also arc of lightning has a short range sure but it can be effected by the range enhancing spell like the old lines and cones before they got dumb in 3.5 and "fixed it" so its area can be big. Also its a line that's much more manipulable than normal, barring some FR spells or really high level spells it may be the best area of effect spell in the game.

And finally vitrollic sphere the reflex negates is only for the continuing damage not for the initial d4per level burst. IIRC correctly there isn't even a save for that so rogues get an ouchy.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

In 3.5e conjuration bypassing SR made sense because all of the conjuration damage effects were acid (which isn't an energy type anyway, it's a chemical!). the only exception I can see is incendiary cloud (which could be seen as being like white phosphorous) Evocation didn't get acid, it got the fire/electricity/sonic/cold stuff.

CA messes up this principle, assuming that "Conjuration" is what avoids SR rather than thinking about the kind of attack form which is created by the spell. It looks to my like lazy design that didn't ever get to grips with the apparent principles behind 3.5e.

Ah well.

I hadn't really noticed that before that's an interesting point.

 

[Testament]

What I find silly is that Fire, Lightning, Sonic and Force orbs are all conjuration [creations]! I can create acid, and ice, and maybe fire, courtesy of white phosphorus or its like. I can't create Lightning, its an energy, not substance. Sonic and Force are pure energies, and should be the exclusive province of Evokers.

 

[FireLance]

In 3.5e conjuration bypassing SR made sense because all of the conjuration damage effects were acid (which isn't an energy type anyway, it's a chemical!). the only exception I can see is incendiary cloud (which could be seen as being like white phosphorous) Evocation didn't get acid, it got the fire/electricity/sonic/cold stuff.

CA messes up this principle, assuming that "Conjuration" is what avoids SR rather than thinking about the kind of attack form which is created by the spell. It looks to my like lazy design that didn't ever get to grips with the apparent principles behind 3.5e.

Ah well.

I will nitpickingly mention Evard's Black Tentacles and then get on with the main point of this post.

I do agree that the principles behind Conjuration and Evocation spells need to be streamlined, and as a bonus, the interesting ways to distinguish the energy types from the Expanded Psionics Handbook could be added to the mix as well.

I don't agree that non-acid Conjurations avoiding SR is lazy thinking. This is a world with dragons, after all. No, my argument is not the obvious one. Dragon breath ignores SR, so a Conjuration spell could simply be the result of diverting the breath of some dragon somewhere (one that has the relevant breath type) to where you want it to go.