D&D 5E Why play a pact blade warlock?

[Dastion]

Blaster Warlock outpaces the Blade Warlock easily, especially at higher levels, if you're just looking at raw numbers. There are mechanic aspects many of you ignore when you crunch the numbers.

1) Being in melee allows for opportunity attacks, potentially increasing damage (see my post on page #3 regarding the nasty combo of War Caster and Pole Arm Master to cast Eldritch Blast as a reaction).

2) Being a weapon means that you can get +1 or better versions of it. From the released Magic Items we've seen so far the design seems to be going towards allowing DC increases for spells, but not necessarily bonuses to attack rolls or damage rolls on spells (though anything is possible). The point being, that getting a +1 Weapon is far more likely than getting a special weapon that does something similar for Eldritch Blast (though I admit of all the spells, it's the most likely one to get an item dedicated to it since it's so iconic).


As to Agonizing Blast - it applies to each hit of Eldritch Blast. It specifically says "add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit". Each roll is a separate chance to hit or miss independent of the others. The comment people refer to where they assume it doesn't apply is the Magic Missile & Empowered Evocations question Mike Mearls answered. He said that if you hit separate targets it would get your Int to damage on both, but not if they all hit the same target since it was one damage roll. I see his logic there, since Magic Missile deals damage simultaneously and doesn't have a to 'hit' you're just assigning dice between targets, since Empowered Envocations adds to the 'damage roll' it only applies to each individual roll. Meanwhile, Scorching Ray would likely gain the bonus to each attack since each hit/roll is separate.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Blaster Warlock outpaces the Blade Warlock easily, especially at higher levels, if you're just looking at raw numbers. There are mechanic aspects many of you ignore when you crunch the numbers.

1) Being in melee allows for opportunity attacks, potentially increasing damage (see my post on page #3 regarding the nasty combo of War Caster and Pole Arm Master to cast Eldritch Blast as a reaction).

2) Being a weapon means that you can get +1 or better versions of it. From the released Magic Items we've seen so far the design seems to be going towards allowing DC increases for spells, but not necessarily bonuses to attack rolls or damage rolls on spells (though anything is possible). The point being, that getting a +1 Weapon is far more likely than getting a special weapon that does something similar for Eldritch Blast (though I admit of all the spells, it's the most likely one to get an item dedicated to it since it's so iconic).


As to Agonizing Blast - it applies to each hit of Eldritch Blast. It specifically says "add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit". Each roll is a separate chance to hit or miss independent of the others. The comment people refer to where they assume it doesn't apply is the Magic Missile & Empowered Evocations question Mike Mearls answered. He said that if you hit separate targets it would get your Int to damage on both, but not if they all hit the same target since it was one damage roll. I see his logic there, since Magic Missile deals damage simultaneously and doesn't have a to 'hit' you're just assigning dice between targets, since Empowered Envocations adds to the 'damage roll' it only applies to each individual roll. Meanwhile, Scorching Ray would likely gain the bonus to each attack since each hit/roll is separate.

I think it's likely only once, but I think we can all agree that it was incredibly poorly worded and needs clarification.

 

[pemerton]

As to Agonizing Blast - it applies to each hit of Eldritch Blast. It specifically says "add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit".

I think it's likely only once, but I think we can all agree that it was incredibly poorly worded and needs clarification.

Presumsably WotC tested/calculated it based on one or the other. How hard would it be to let the gaming public know what they had in mind?

For me, the wizard/durable debate is the same. Why can't WotC just tell us. (Of course, it would have been even better if they'd written the rules more clearly in the first place.)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why would someone play a pact blade warlock?

Because they want to stab things, but also want to do something else once in a while, so are looking for an alternative to the Fighter?

At 11th level they can either make 2 melee attacks with their pact blade, or make 3 attacks with eldritch blast. At 17th level it is still only 2 melee attacks vs now 4 eldritch blast attacks.

It seems pointless to go melee as a warlock, which is a shame.

How much damage does EB do? If it's a die roll with no stat mod, like other caster's cantrips, but the pact blade is weapon dice + a stat mod, the latter might very well do about double the damage of the former, making sense of the disparity in attacks/round. If not, there may be some other way to heap damage mods or riders on the pact blade that make it about twice as good as the EB.

Or, it may be that the designers deemed the Warlock too fragile for melee, so wanted to make it painfully obvious that you shouldn't melee unless you have to? :shrug:

 

[Salamandyr]

The nice thing is that, if the Pact Blade Warlock is underpowered, the way it's constructed allows them to buff its power a little just by adding some new incantations in a later supplement.

 

[gyor]

Paladin 5/Warlock 15, pick Paladin Spells like Wrathful Smite, Cure Wounds, and Find Steed.

You can now smite with your pact blade per short rest, wear plate armour, summon a steed, use a Holy Avenger sword as your pact blade, take the life drinker invocation, ect...

One thing about pact blade is how does it interact with improvised weapon and unarmed weapon rules? Can you turn it into a chair and smack people with it WWF style? And then sit in it?

And unarmed attack is in the weapons list, what happens if you summon unarmed attack as your pact weapon, do you grow claws or something, boxing gloves?

 

[Mistwell]

Nevermind point was already dealt with

 

[GhostShip Blue]

Uh, so don't play 5E?

Honestly, why invest all the energy and mock outrage in it if it's so bad? I don't play 3.5, 4 or 5 but I invest no time in griping about it. I invest my time, well, most of it anyway, with rare sidetrips into random EN World postings, playing, planning and reading about games I like.

See you at the table.

 

[PnPgamer]

I would say that blade pact warlock requires more thought into the matter than just a quick look at the feature. It isn't so obvious, but you have to dig deeper than just saying that blaster is always better because it's benefits are shown in one page. Blade pact warlocks can give out immense amounts of damage, which will walk hand in hand with blaster throughout until the very high levels in which blaster gets his fourth ray of force.

Here is another thread that proved that they at least go pretty much hand in hand until the very last levels:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?400401-Warlocks-seem-pointless/page3

Its the longest post there, by Ashrym (all credit to him).

but to say the least, if feats aren't allowed, blade warlock loses in DPR, easily. Also blade warlocks are more on the mercy of their DM's. One could rule that blade pact warlock can shape the bonded magic item (I am lucky mine does). Another could not, but still give corresponding version of magic item (ie, those magical halberds). Blade pact warlock has like 2-3 feats in line to be taken, if not even more.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have seen 2 bladelocks in action but both are MCed. The melee one has better feat support than the Eldritch Blaster one. The reason to take one is you might need a front line tank. The decent build I have seen splashed a single fighter level for heavyarmor and to reduce MAD on the single classed one. Proficiency in con saves is decent as well.

Extra damage comes from armor of agathys in melee combat and one could take Great Weapon Master I suppose but I suspect the prize may be the sentinel feat. Eventually she will be adding an extra 1d6 and cha bonus to damage+ bonus damage from armor of agathys. Extra hit points also come fromt he temp hit point part of the fiend pact where you gain temporary hit points for killing people. That ability and armor of agthays makes the class quite tanky in terms of hit point damage taken.

That bladelock seems to be comparing well to a fighter and Paladin anyway.