Why Shouldn't I Ban "Come and Get It"?

[keterys]

So, ignoring all the realism justifications or not...

The reason you shouldn't ban it is if a player wants to take it and it would make the game more fun.

If it's unbalanced or it would harm the game, toss it. If no one particularly cares about taking it, and it bothers at least one person, toss it.

If it would make things more fun, then revel in the movie-like narrative control and enjoy the more fluid combats.

 

[GoLu]

Perhaps a better example would be one character under the influence of some paragon or epic level ritual causing them to see all their friends as enemies? (Via illusion.) I maintain there are plenty of possibilities.

Fair enough.

I prefer games with low levels of intra-party conflict, so I'd probably encourage a roleplaying response to that epic ritual ("Why is Lord Deathgloom the Terrible cooking me breakfast?") rather than an immediate combat response. That said, in some games this is the kind of thing that could reasonably initiate a fight. And, for that matter, a (perhaps inexperienced?) DM might create an elite monster by giving it the fighter template and then not really thinking too hard about which encounter power it should have. Same ultimate problem: the 'come and get it' power gets used on the PCs.

 

[Particle_Man]

The villain as forced the PCs into an arena, finding themselves surrounded by a crowd of chanting, bloodlusting onlookers. At his side, upon a grand balcony seat, or several dozen innocent children.

"Unless you'd like to see these orphan children burned to death, Sir Valiant, you'll do as I say and put on a little show for this crowd! You'll fight! Fight like your life depends upon it!"

We see this sort of thing in various action/adventure tales now and again. It's not really my style, but it's one way to make PCs fight.

I've had PCs come to blows over differing moral stances before, at that. Sometimes you don't even need to force their hands.

Or you give them a powerful magic artifact to fight over. The Head of Vecna, for example.

 

[Wormwood]

The reason you shouldn't ban it is if a player wants to take it and it would make the game more fun.
If it's unbalanced or it would harm the game, toss it. If no one particularly cares about taking it, and it bothers at least one person, toss it.

If it would make things more fun, then revel in the movie-like narrative control and enjoy the more fluid combats.

This.

 

[ZombieButch]

I'm imagining it sort of like Ali and the rope-a-dope, where the fighter seems to drop his guard to make himself into a more inviting target. If you're George Foreman, and you see Ali looking like he's hurt, even if you KNOW it could be a trap you still have to hit him, because if he IS hurt you've got to take advantage of it while you've got the chance.

Or to look at it with another boxing analogy, it'd be like dropping your left to draw a straight right from your opponent, because you know when he throws it you can loop a hook around and catch him in the head. Even if he knows that's what you're planning, your head is RIGHT THERE; drop that guard enough and sooner or later he's going to go for it on the chance that he can drop you before you can throw the counter.

 

[Wormwood]

I prefer to think that the fighter doesn't *force* the monsters to attack him at all. Instead, the monsters *chose* to rush the fighter as a group, but they didn't realize he had an awesome counter move.

Yes, it takes a tiny bit of control away from the DM and hands it to a player---not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[Marnak]

With martial exploits, it can help to visualize slide and pull effects as tactical manuevering. The fighter doesn't compell opponents to aproach him. He might manuever so that they're closer to him than they thought he'd be, apear vulnerable so they move in for the kill, or lash out boldly at those just out of reach leaving those who survive a chance to advance on him. Taunting, of course, is also just fine, if the fighter's the charismatic sort and it fits the nature of the opponents. You can visualize the same exploit differently depending on the situation and the nature of the enemies.

I think this makes a lot of sense. It just depends on me being able to let go enough to allow this kind of flexibility when it "feels" because of gameplay like magical compulsion.

 

[Marnak]

To the OP

Because in lord of the rings (fellowship of the rings) the orcs attacked Aragorn instead of running past him to get Frodo...

Because all the bad guys ran at Mad Martagin in Willow

Because all the guards attacked the sword master Indigo in The Princes Bride.

Because sometimes the warrior comes out to say.. Come get some!!.. And the bad guys (thinking they can take him down by sheer numbers) charge right at him, hoping to take down the wall that now stands before them.

Good literary examples. My problem isn't with this exploit working some of the time it is with it working all the time against everyone of any level regardless of situation (minion two squares away, concealed BBEG rogue with cover three squares away). Why would the drow rogue leave her position of concealment where she can shoot the fighter very effectively? Ok, maybe the goad, etc., but shouldn't this at least have some kind of attack or save?

Sidonunspa's examples are mostly (it seems to me) minion types with which I don't have a huge problem regarding the exploit. My problem is the fighter gets close to Sauron and "makes" Sauron go for him instead of going for Frodo. I might even be ok with this if Sauron got some kind of save or Sauron's Will had to be "hit".

 

[Lizard]

You describe it by not using it on PCs. This does not rule out PCs using it on NPCs, because the entire philosophy of 4E is that PCs and NPCs play by different rules.

Would those rules include the rules for applying a "PC Template" to a monster or leveled NPC and picking "Come And Get It" as one of their powers?

If so, why not mark some powers in the PHB as "Not for use by NPCs, even those built with class templates"?

Your reply to every broken, or even questionable, rule seems to be "Well, don't do that!" I'd love to see you working a computer help desk.

"Your program crashes when I print my document."
"So, don't print your document. Next!"

 

[Evilhalfling]

"Come and get it big boy?, You really need to work on your quips Will."

"We all miss Buffy, but I think we took her punning for granted."

"May I suggest 'This time its personal.' "