Why so little D20 Modern Support?

[Stormborn]

I love and support d20 Modern to the best of my ability. Having said that, I don't play it. I cannabalize it, but my group doesn't use it right now. This is mainly because we have one player who HATES modern settings, anything after WW2 basically. I wonder if his attitude is typical? If their is a bias against moderen settings, and so people don't see that d20 Modern is adaptable for a lot of things and settings.

As far as Adventure d20 goes: a friend of mine is looking at starting a Pulp game in a few months. Most of the potential players have the old Adventure! book. A decision has been made to play the pulp game with d20 Modern, borrowing from books we already have. That is a second potential problem with d20 Modern, as has been said before, many settings that it could cover have already been done. In our case, and with a many others on these boards I think, we will use the d20 M rules and just borrow from the other systems.

I would like to see, and I think it would help d20 M's image, is a non-earth/non-now/non-"reality" OGL book built off the d20 M SRD. A full alternate reality setting that could really take advantage of the Occupation/BaseClass/Advanced Class mechanics of d20 M. I think d20 Modern's strength lies in its ability to more accurately model the members of a complex society in a way that many core d20 products cannot.

 

[trancejeremy]

I really didn't like the d20 Modern Occupation/Base Class (ie, Hero type)/Advanced Class system at first.

But after seeing OGL Cybernet, which completely botched the classes, I've become apreciative of how they designed it. I still think it's a bit wonky, especially for NPCs, but it's not bad.

D20 Modern's class system is a way of trying to represent a lot of people without having to come up with a whole lots of classes, which is a good try (though I simply like having lots of classes. But I can see the trouble some people have with that). But other's, like OGL Cybernet, simply came up with 6 very specific core classes, which IMHO, didn't cover Cyberpunk very well.

Spycraft is better, I think. But my main complaint is still with that is the classes - 6 of them are not enough to represent a modern setting. (I mean, D&D has what, 12, plus 5 more NPC classes). Once they added on a bunch it got a lot better, except of course, you have to buy all those additional books with core classes in them (most of which are in SFA books, which I really hate).

Personally, I think it would be cool if AEG came out with a Spycraft open license (to use the logo) and there would be more support of it for non-spy genres. Now that VP/WP is open content, companies can support Spycraft on the sly, but a logo would be nice.

Anyway, I would agree, d20 Modern perhaps has an image problem, it's too intwined with Urban Arcana, which turns off a lot of people. A more realistic game, using the VP/WP rules, and armor stopping damage, might have been better.

 

[Vigilance]

As one of the (apparently) core-rules diehards, I'm really glad that you're writing stuff, and I'm really glad it's selling.

Doh! I wasn't intentionally singling you out lol. Just pointing out that people who are content with the core rules in any game, whether GURPs, D&D, Hero, or Modern seem to be a small minority.

I agree with some of the posters about the need for adventure materials. For my take on a useful adventure supplement check out my Inside Vossburg Supermax (currently #1 on the RPGNow Modern list) which has a map of a maximum security prison, over a dozen NPCs, and some light crunch.

Its not a module, but is something I find more useful. You could use it again and again.

Chuck

 

[Aaron2]

I really didn't like the d20 Modern Occupation/Base Class (ie, Hero type)/Advanced Class system at first.

It's the opposite for me. I liked them at first but grew frustrated trying to adapt them for my WW2 game.

Anyway, I would agree, d20 Modern perhaps has an image problem, it's too intwined with Urban Arcana, which turns off a lot of people. A more realistic game, using the VP/WP rules, and armor stopping damage, might have been better.

This is a good point. What, exactly, is d20 Modern? Is it a generic rpg for playing in multiple setting and genres or is it a setting of its own? With GURPS or Hero, you at least get information on several time periods and tech levels. It seems that all the official d20 Modern stuff is contemporary; the d20 Weapon Locker only has info on recent stuff rather than weapon from many different time periods. If the intention at WotC was to make a more generic game, you wouldn't know it.


Aaron

 

[Vigilance]

But after seeing OGL Cybernet, which completely botched the classes, I've become apreciative of how they designed it. I still think it's a bit wonky, especially for NPCs, but it's not bad.

Its a tough pill to swallow. I hated base classes on first sight as well.

However, one of the things I now love about them is the fact that they do away with the "NPC only" classes (adept, warrior, expert, commoner, aristocrat) in favor of something much smoother.

Rather than good classes and substandard classes (which is ridiculous- Fighter is just as easy to get into as Warrior) d20 Modern has "apprentice" classes that everyone is in when they are inexperienced, then "journeyman" classes, and then "master" classes.

A very nice system.

But it is a shock at first and you really have to see iot in action to appreciate it.

Chuck

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I require non-FX adventures (it's easy to edit FX out of some of the adventures, though). So far I have access to the following:

ALTERNITY (* means its a Star*Drive adventure)
Cauldron Station (official)
*Terror at Endomar (unofficial sequal to Cauldron Station)
*Black Starfall (official)
*Red Starrise (official)
Problem at Formid Station (unofficial)
*Just a Few Baubles (very long adventure)
*Hunt for a Sample
Star*Craft ALTERNITY (3 very short linked adventures, I guess these are official)
*7 Star*Drive adventure ideas (very short, found in Dragon Magazine)
*Edge of the Pit (adventure at Hammer's Star)
Cellscape (prison break!)
Bug Hunters (uses spikespores, replace with ALIENS, Zerg or whatever you feel like)
*Klick Klack (amazing adventure)
Raw Recruits (this one is hard to judge - it's sci-fi since it includes psionics. However it's prequel is heavily influenced by magic.)
The Senator's Catastrophe (very short)
Varied very short adventure ideas.

D20 Modern
Three Kingdoms adventure (RTK06)
Team BRAVO (this one involves dinosaurs, though)
Adelie 14
A Funny Thing Happened at Terminal #

Note the difference? Apparently WotC will soon put out 3 free non-FX adventures on its website, though, which is something I look forward to.

 

[Psion]

However, one of the things I now love about them is the fact that they do away with the "NPC only" classes (adept, warrior, expert, commoner, aristocrat) in favor of something much smoother.

Rather than good classes and substandard classes (which is ridiculous- Fighter is just as easy to get into as Warrior) d20 Modern has "apprentice" classes that everyone is in when they are inexperienced, then "journeyman" classes, and then "master" classes.

Chuck,

Did you skip the section on "ordinaries" in your d20 M book?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Chuck,

Did you skip the section on "ordinaries" in your d20 M book?

How many DnD adventures features NPC classes? Past the first few levels you stop dealing with goblin warriors and, all of a sudden, everyone's a hero!

Besides, I like how NPCs are actually balanced with PCs in D20 Modern - reducing the reliance on magic items (to the point of eliminating it) made things really easy to balance.

It's the opposite for me. I liked them at first but grew frustrated trying to adapt them for my WW2 game.

How so? I found D20 Modern works quite well in a game set in medieval China.

 

[Geoff]

This is a good point. What, exactly, is d20 Modern? Is it a generic rpg for playing in multiple setting and genres or is it a setting of its own? With GURPS or Hero, you at least get information on several time periods and tech levels. It seems that all the official d20 Modern stuff is contemporary; the d20 Weapon Locker only has info on recent stuff rather than weapon from many different time periods. If the intention at WotC was to make a more generic game, you wouldn't know it.

Coming in a little late here, but in my view it is more of a rules system than a setting in itself. It's very capable of being used in any genre from fantasy to space opera with a little tweaking. Yes the product is slanted more towards the "fantastic" modern world, but it can do so much more.

Take a look at
Sidewinder: Recoiled for our take on Wild West action using d20 Modern.

 

[DeBracy]

Coming in a little late here, but in my view it is more of a rules system than a setting in itself. It's very capable of being used in any genre from fantasy to space opera with a little tweaking. Yes the product is slanted more towards the "fantastic" modern world, but it can do so much more.

Take a look at
Sidewinder: Recoiled for our take on Wild West action using d20 Modern.

This is exactly how I feel as well. D&D is full of "D&Disms", and that's not necessarily a bad thing - it just doesn't come across as generic. I feel that Modern does however - no matter if I get inspired by Chuck's Blood & Fists or Sidewinder by Goeff and his posse it'll work terriffic. One thing that's always turned me off from getting some d20 games is that I would have get D&D as well. I'm sorry (becasue it's my loss) but I just don't get along with those books. I'm not sure why but... I just don't.

I don't know if I'm the only one but I'd definitly go buy a book with 5-6 "minigames" in Polyhedron-style containing a setting and a basic adventure/campaign idea. Preferably low or no FX. I'm really hoping for some more historic or semi-hsitoric settings (no semi-historic as D&D to medieval Europe, more like Call of Cthulhu to the 1920s or so).