why the attraction to "low magic"?

[Wombat]

I know several campaigns out there were one of the house rules is that for every level you take in a magic-using class, you must take the next level in a non-magic-using class. This effectively cuts the available magic in half.

Don't put magical shops into your campaign. No magic is for sale at any price.

But, as has been said above, lay this out ahead of time. Just like one person can say, "I am running a Forgotten Realms campaign set in the Dales" and another can say, "I am running a Planescape campaign", you know ahead of time with these that you are getting two very different flavours of gaming. So, too, with the games I have hosted -- in one campaign there was a known social stigma against all magic users; in another there was no access to the gods, so no divine magic and/or powers; in another, only non-humans could harness magical powers. In none of them were psionics allowed.

In all these cases, my gaming group had a great time and no one complained about the "lack" of magic. Instead the campaigns were looked upon a deeply flavourful and exciting.

OTOH, I have met other gamers who cringe at the notion of having characters who do not all have magical arms, armour and equipment by the time they have reached 6th level.

Diff'rent strokes is all.

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

Heroes wouldn't need gear if they had powers that did all the things gear lets you do.

Because this needs to be repeated.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Because Achilles didn't wear a pair of magical gauntlets, a magical cloak, a magical pair of boots, a magical sword, a magical suit of armor, a magical shield, a magical spear, a magical tunic, 2 magical rings, a magical neckalce and 2 ioun stones.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Heroes wouldn't need gear if they had powers that did all the things gear lets you do.

And players wouldn't need any of either if they learned to think more and react less.

 

[Serps]

Four pages of replies, and nobody's mentioned Grim Tales yet?

 

[Baron Opal]

Because Achilles didn't wear a pair of magical gauntlets, a magical cloak, a magical pair of boots, a magical sword, a magical suit of armor, a magical shield, a magical spear, a magical tunic, 2 magical rings, a magical neckalce and 2 ioun stones.

No, but he was dipped in the River Styx, which I imagine gave him the capabilities of half of the things you mentioned. He was also a "giant among men".

Most of what I'm reading boils down to "I don't like it when the character is defined by his items rather than who he is." And that's fine with me. I do prefer an epic level of play, which I find very challenging as a DM. I find that providing custom items, few if any purchasable items beyond scrolls/potions, and recurring villans tied into the game world lends a lot to the player's enjoyment. My campaign is "high-magic", and the players are well aware of it from the get-go.

Baron Opal

 

[Raven Crowking]

I didn't know that.

So, like, when Frodo put the ring on and turned invisible, could he have made Gandalf do a little dance or something?

(yes, this is a tangent. sorry)

From The Mirror of Galadrial (The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2):

"I would ask one thing before we go," said Frodo, "a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them?"

"You have not tried," she said. "Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the dominion of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight is grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring?" she asked turning again to Sam.

RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

Hmm, I'm not sure I made any "claims" that a DM shouldn't make changes for their world and if it came across that way, it wasn't my intention.

Glad to hear it. "Low magic" shouldn't equate to "low fun".

What I was trying to say was that my one brush with a "low-magic" campaign left a very bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't so much a low-magic campaign as it was the DM telling us "no" to everything character concept presented to him. He seemed to have some kind of vendetta against what he thought was min/maxing or powergaming or whatever he wanted to call it at the time.

Did the DM in question give some clear idea of the type of characters he would find acceptable? And, if so, was is possible within these guidelines to make a character you would have enjoyed playing? If yes, then there should have been no problem with the character design part of the game. If no, then you probably would not have been a good player/DM match anyway.

Anyway, going into detail isn't really important. My point was that I wanted some reasons and philosophies for running low-magic campaigns and how to do it "properly".

I would claim that my game is roughly mid-magic. There are a lot of faerie elements, a lot of neat magic, but enough of the more powerful items have drawbacks to make the characters unsure about what is (or isn't) safe. I give only 1/2 book XP, so making magic items and casting certain spells is a bit more pricey than in a standard campaign. On the other hand, I use the Heroes of High Favor: Elves ley line system, allowing characters to enhance their spellcasting, and some other variants that might allow you to circumvent some of the XP costs. Power components are an obvious one.

The PCs in my campaign currently run from 1st to 5th level, and I am using a character tree that allows players to use XP to advance several characters. Gods are very real, and divine politics color much of what occurs in the world. Faerie Lords are literally quasi-deities or better, and the PCs have now encountered deities at least twice.

I find the XP change works well to keep magic in check. I also assume that spellcasters are fairly rare, making PC spellcasters the exception rather than the rule. Thus, they have fewer magic items to find randomly, and the "big name" spellcasters that they have heard of are not necessarily high level.

RC

 

[I'm A Banana]

Because Achilles didn't wear a pair of magical gauntlets, a magical cloak, a magical pair of boots, a magical sword, a magical suit of armor, a magical shield, a magical spear, a magical tunic, 2 magical rings, a magical neckalce and 2 ioun stones.

Yes, but if your player game to you and said "I want to be the child of a god, and here's my 40 strength and 30 Con, because I'm the child of a god, and I can beat the snot out of a river and never get hit" it'd be acceptable?

My campaign is high magic, but low-loot. The characters choose a patron (a deity, a dragon, an ancestor, an animal spirit), and they gain powers related to that patron instead of magical items. I don't reduce the GP, I just give them 'treasure' in the form of powers rather than magic items, same cost. The exception is the artificer, but even he gets magic powers from his patron when he's not constructing items. Basically, my solution is Janx's: the players don't need items if I give them powers that the items were meant to do.

And players wouldn't need any of either if they learned to think more and react less.

And this is pretty insulting, man. Just because people groove on powerful characters doesn't mean their characters are devoid of thought...heck, high-level D&D almost mandates more thought and planning, because one wrong step, and you're the subject of a save-or-die spell, and done for, for long enough to make sure your enemies can succeed. When all your marbles hinge on your careful actions, you have to think a LOT more about what to do.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Don't put magical shops into your campaign. No magic is for sale at any price.

I don't use magic shops, but I do use individual craftsmen who will make magic items for the right person, if their demands are met. For example, there is a goblin smith out in the woods who lives in a hidden house and who makes superior (and sometimes magical) arms and armor. Find him, convince him to make something for you (and it'll take more than money! ) and you can be sure to get something good. Well, as good as he can make it, because he doesn't have access to every enchantment you might want.....

Low magic because these are individuals you have to find. Mid-magic because you can find them. And, since a number of magical (or masterwork) swords bear these individual's smith-marks, you can at least learn that they exist....

RC