why the attraction to "low magic"?

[reanjr]

I don't play low-magic settings because of any of the reasons you have presented. I play them because I think they present a better story (which of course is subjective). I like the feeling of epic struggle in my games, and to accomplish this, making the setting low-magic can be an important tool. Spells like Find the Path, Commune, Locate Creature, Locate Object, Teleport, True Resurrection, Wish, etc. can really take away from the everyday struggle of heroism.

Most of these spells can be countered (or are only available to high level characters). But that's like playing a cold war style arms race between the players and the NPCs. I don't want to have the villains forced to think everyday about what divination spells are going to irrevocably bring down their plots. Nor do I want the players to have to do the same everytime they run away from a fight that's too powerful, in fear of revenge. I recently played a campaign where almost a third of the time was spent worrying about stopping divinations from "seeing" the party. I did not play long.

Also, I like to be able to challenge the PCs with intelligent villains. Kobolds are still appropriate for high level adventures if done right. But not so with loads of magic, since the PCs can do things that make them invulnerable to lower levels encounters.

Basically, low magic settings makes the game more fun and tell a better story.

I have a counter-question. Why do you prefer high-magic?

 

[Xaov]

I agree with what is being said, altough I have hardly ever DMed I know the guy I play under gives us a lot of magic items but these items are in the form of potions and such, we sometimes get magic weaps and armor. I think this adds a good amount of realism to the character.

Now for my two cents. While Magic is always present something that has seem to really grow recently, in my experience are the Psionics. While they have to cope with power points some of the abilities they have are a little bit over powered in my opinion. In the group I play under we have a psion, now most spell casters sorcerers, wizards, clerics, druids, etc. don't have very powerful spells until mid to high level. This Psion however is only level 4 and has a power that is called Energy Missle, it attacks up to 5 separate targets and deals I think 3D6 to each. Now that is crazy. He can wipe out 5 targets within one round! Sometimes the game feels like it is strictly magic/power based and the others are just there for the ride. I have yet to play a low-magic/power campaign but it might be a nice change.

 

[GlassJaw]

I have a counter-question. Why do you prefer high-magic?

I'm not sure I do anymore after this thread....

Originally, the main reason was options. I really liked the idea (and still do) of being able to play a wide range of characters. I also liked being able to gain power within the campaign which allows the group to battle more powerful and interesting creatures. Fighting beholders, dragons, mind flayers, etc IS fun. Of course to do that, you need to be able to handle yourself.

This thread has really opened my eyes though. I start playing 3ed since it came out (and 1ed/2ed back in the day) but never really had the opportunity to play in an immersive, well-run low-magic campaign. Now that I'm older (and wiser?) and have much more gaming experience, the high-magic style is getting tired for me.

I don't think it's a lesser style of play, I just want to try something new. And that seems to be a common theme in many of these posts. Character sheets that becoming magic item catalogues and spell lists longer than my arm start to wear you down. Actual game-time becomes so heavily invested in combat that it's almost not has fun anymore. To tell you the truth, saying that scares me because I know some of the other players in the group still enjoy it (this campaign has been going on for 2+ years) but I'm getting to the point where I need something else.

One guy in the group had a really cool idea for his homebrew where most of the existing magic items were made by elves and dwarves long ago. There was a major war (with the elves being held largely responsible) and during which, many of the magic items, as well as the means to create them, were either destroyed or died with the participants. Magic is still the same as it was but there are very powerful magic "schools" run by wizards who keep tabs on those that practice magic. It's also unknown if the secrets to creating magic items has been rediscovered or perhaps these wizards know but aren't telling anyone else. Needless to say, these wizards hold much power in the political structure.

Anyway, with just a paragraph description, I was hooked! His idea had a logical campaign background that explained the lack of magic but it also allowed for a lot of discovery and role-playing with the structure.

I might be rambling but I think my point is that both low-magic and high-magic have negative steroetypes associated with them. Low-magic can be thought of as elitist or restrictive and high-magic is for munchkins and powergamers. Fortunately, neither is the case if you have a good DM and good players.

 

[DragonLancer]

Spells like Find the Path, Commune, Locate Creature, Locate Object, Teleport, True Resurrection, Wish, etc. can really take away from the everyday struggle of heroism.

Most of these spells can be countered (or are only available to high level characters). But that's like playing a cold war style arms race between the players and the NPCs. I don't want to have the villains forced to think everyday about what divination spells are going to irrevocably bring down their plots. Nor do I want the players to have to do the same everytime they run away from a fight that's too powerful, in fear of revenge.

Absolutely. That’s another good reason why I prefer games to be more low-powered. Especially where you mention the arms race between the players and the DM.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I agree with what is being said, altough I have hardly ever DMed I know the guy I play under gives us a lot of magic items but these items are in the form of potions and such, we sometimes get magic weaps and armor. I think this adds a good amount of realism to the character.

Now for my two cents. While Magic is always present something that has seem to really grow recently, in my experience are the Psionics. While they have to cope with power points some of the abilities they have are a little bit over powered in my opinion. In the group I play under we have a psion, now most spell casters sorcerers, wizards, clerics, druids, etc. don't have very powerful spells until mid to high level. This Psion however is only level 4 and has a power that is called Energy Missle, it attacks up to 5 separate targets and deals I think 3D6 to each. Now that is crazy. He can wipe out 5 targets within one round! Sometimes the game feels like it is strictly magic/power based and the others are just there for the ride. I have yet to play a low-magic/power campaign but it might be a nice change.

Yes, the Energy Missile power is broken, and it hasn't been errata'd yet. I really wish pisonics would get some better editing; it already has enough reputation problems as it is.

Having said that, it's not like wizards don't have ridiculously overpowered abilities either, it's just that DMs are usually more familiar with these abilities.

(DMs should also have standing orders to keep munchkins away from psionics. It's hard to do that, though, but it seems a lot of munchkins are taking advantage of a DM's lack of psionic knowledge to either abuse the rules or flat-out break them. The same thing happens with just about any other non-core book.)

 

[The Great Bear King]

I consider arcane magic to be a random mutation in my campaign, OK. So how about this, 10% of the human poulation are "half-magicians", 5% are "full-magicians" and those born of normal humans have a 5% chance to be magicians (4% chance to be "half-magicians").

"Half-magicians" are only capable of joining arcane spell casting classes that can cast up to 6th level spells (Bard or Weaponsmith).

"Full-magicians" may join any arcane spell casting class they want.

 

[Drifter Bob]

I'm not sure I do anymore after this thread....
Originally, the main reason was options. I really liked the idea (and still do) of being able to play a wide range of characters. I also liked being able to gain power within the campaign which allows the group to battle more powerful and interesting creatures. Fighting beholders, dragons, mind flayers, etc IS fun. Of course to do that, you need to be able to handle yourself.

I guess it's time for ole drifter bob to chime in here!

I have three comments.

1) One nice thing about high magic is having a lot of options. I think one of the reasons a lot of people go to low magic is that the basic magic system of D&D is poorly organized, but this is difficult to change because the fan base of D&D has expectations going back to before 1E.

Think of a spell like invisibility, whole fairy tales are built around that ability, it's incredibly powerful. Instead of giving it false limitations for balance (what logical sense does it make that you blink into visibility if you attack somebody?) maybe it should be made the very high level spell that it really is? There are numerous other spells which don't make sense as low or mid level spells. My personal list includes detect-evil (most detection spell), fly, dimension door, passwall, find the path, (find anything) commune, teleport, raise dead, fireball, lightning bolt, silence, and numerous others. If these spells were classified as high level spells (I think spell levels should go up to around 15 or 20!) as they probably should be the whole system would make a lot more sense, IMO.

The reason I say this, is because though I prefer low magic, as a DM I personally like to give the players a LOT of spell options, just not so many super powerful ones.

One of the things i always hated about playing a wizard was how weak and limited 1st level mages were. They got their one shot which was usually pretty lethal, and then they were essentially useless until they got a day to rest. But if you give them more options that are a little less powerful, they can be contributing to the adventure the whole time. Rather than the all or nothing of one instant kill spell, like say one fireball, I'd like to give them ten or fifteen low to mid- level spells, 0 level, 1/2 level, 1st level... which can do wierd things that a thinking player could take advantage of.

I love the cantrips in 3E and spells like mage hand, and reduce, and rope trick.
I put like 30 cantrips of this sort in a d20 book I wrote, to expand the repertoire of interesting low level spells. A spell to summon a tiny fire elemental out of a bonfire or tiny water elemental from a stream; a spell to make somebody suddenly have to go take a leak (like that pesky guard standing in front of the gate); a spell to turn mice and toads into the likeness of fair maidens; a spell to drop yourself down to ant size to do some scouting; a spell to make pursuers change direction without realising; a spell to make somebody forget the last thing you said to them...

When running my own campaign I'll often give a low level spellcaster a ring of wizardry early on to double their 1st level spells, so they'll have more options, and yet, I don't like playing high magic games, for all the reasons described in this thread ... which brings me to my next point...

2) Almost everybody tinkers with the existing experience point bonus system, because it lets players level too quickly. There seems to be a 'sweet spot' in D&D somewhere around 4-9th level. Any lower and you are basically a speedbump, and much higher and you start to be a cartoonish super dude, more like "He Man masters of the universe" than a gritty character from Howard, or Leiber, or Moorcock, or Vance. Not to reiterate what has already been said but the game becomes about collecting and matching up various items and powers.

Generally, I think (ducking shower of bricks) a little tinkering with the basic D&D rules would make the game a lot more fun. Move a few spells around, up the xp point curve a good chunk, and make magic items much more expensive and rare, (and make magic item creation a bit harder) and suddenly you have a much more fun game people need to tinker with a lot less. I think that would be an excellent start.

3) ON THE OTHER HAND, I must caution you glassjaw: Over the years I have run across a lot of 'serious' people who push the low magic pendulum way, way too far in the other direction, to the point where in one campaign I know of (which one my players is in on the side) after three years of playing about once a month, they are all still second level. Campaigns in which the players almost never get to fight, and are nearly powerless. That can be really lame. I think the idea is to give as many options as possible without overloading the game to where it becomes this spectacular farce.

just my $.02

DB

 

[I'm A Banana]

Uo

The idea of a low-magic world is one where magical treasures are not weilded by every farmer and warrior, where cities are not linked by teleport circles, and castles are not protected from magics. Its reducing the magical level from contemporary technology to regular pseudo-medieval.

This

And This:

Also, I like to be able to challenge the PCs with intelligent villains. Kobolds are still appropriate for high level adventures if done right. But not so with loads of magic, since the PCs can do things that make them invulnerable to lower levels encounters.

Basically, low magic settings makes the game more fun and tell a better story.

Are false assumptions about normal magic D&D that are more symptomatic of bad DMing or lack of understanding than they are a cause of high magic. Normal magic does not mean every commoner wields a magic weapon, nor does it mean that magic is destructive to a semi-medieval feel. Normal magic does not remove low-level challenges, or tell a better story.

They are, in my opinion, "Bad Reasons." And insulting to normal magic campaigns.

Don't let me stop you from having fun, but do realize that normal magic does not suffer from those ailments.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The biggest lure for low magic campaigns isn't necessarily min/maxing. It's people trying to recreate the fiction that they grew up with. Conan, Fafrd, Gray Mouser, Bran Mac Morn, and others

This is certainly the biggest lure for "low magic" campaigns for me - the fantasy fiction I grew up on had powerful magic but it was rare and often dangerous. The heroes typically had to rely on their own wits and talents rather than the nifty items they had accumulated, and you never saw anyone flying if they didn't have wings.

Cheers

 

[I'm A Banana]

This is certainly the biggest lure for "low magic" campaigns for me - the fantasy fiction I grew up on had powerful magic but it was rare and often dangerous. The heroes typically had to rely on their own wits and talents rather than the nifty items they had accumulated, and you never saw anyone flying if they didn't have wings.

And, conversely, this is what I would call a "good reason".