log in or register to remove this ad

 

"Why the Empire Strikes Back Is Overrated"


log in or register to remove this ad

Zardnaar

Legend
Nope. My favorite as a kid was Star Wars.
Fair enough. I never jumped on the Ewok hate bandwagon. I don't care if Jedi is someones favorite.

Hot take is AotC is best SW movie. Sure there's probably someone somewhere who thinks that but I've only encountered them online.
 
Last edited:

I never understood why everyone hates Ewoks, though I'm probably biased as I grew up as a kid with them, so I probably just liked that they were cute.
I agree that they aren't logical in their tactics, but then again, neither are the storm troopers. (Why would you design vehicles with legs?!?!)
 


Zardnaar

Legend
I never understood why everyone hates Ewoks, though I'm probably biased as I grew up as a kid with them, so I probably just liked that they were cute.
I agree that they aren't logical in their tactics, but then again, neither are the storm troopers. (Why would you design vehicles with legs?!?!)
Rough terrain. In one of the books they put spider legs on an AT-AT. AT-MT the M was for mountain.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
The Jedi are Uber rare though in the star wars galaxy and somewhat secretive.

People knew they exist but they're rarer than US. Navy seals in the real world.


We see more onscreen than the average galactic citizen.

That's more of a prequel problem though.
I like how The Mandalorian reinforces this with its conversation between Mando and the Armorer about the Child's abilites.

Overall I think Filnoi actually cares about continuity and consistency.
 

Rough terrain. In one of the books they put spider legs on an AT-AT. AT-MT the M was for mountain.
Legs are never better than caterpillar tracks or wheels. They have hover vehicles to completely avoid the above options! They can be knocked over to kill everyone inside and destroy the vehicle.

It doesn't matter if terrain is rough if they can ignore the ground.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Legs are never better than caterpillar tracks or wheels. They have hover vehicles to completely avoid the above options! They can be knocked over to kill everyone inside and destroy the vehicle.

It doesn't matter if terrain is rough if they can ignore the ground.
I suspect it's the rule of cool. In universe repulsor lift vehicles might cost more idk.

Speeder bikes not so good on Endor.
 

Speederbikes aren't good on Endor, but that's because they were stupidly speeding through the trees at full speed, crashing into trees a ton. If they slowed down, it would be a good option.
 


Eltab

Hero
I wonder if the poll question "Is The Empire Strikes Back overrated?" has had respondents classified by "I watched the movie in initial release" vs "I learned about the movie from sources outside the theater"?
 

Zardnaar

Legend
At the time critics didn't like it as much.

Critics opinions don't really matter though they're not the ones buying tickets generally.

Any other problems of future movies is on them not ESB. We had original new stories but yeah.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Legs are never better than caterpillar tracks or wheels. They have hover vehicles to completely avoid the above options! They can be knocked over to kill everyone inside and destroy the vehicle.

It doesn't matter if terrain is rough if they can ignore the ground.
Legs are actually far better at stably navigating lots of types of difficult terrain. They work in mud, they work in shallow water, they work on steep slopes, they work in tight quarters, which are all places that tracks have issues. Sure, they have downsides, but tracked vehicles do, too; they're slow and less maneuverable.

Hover/repulsor has other issues, mostly that they really only work well on flatish ground and have the same issues in tight quarters than tracks do.

We, today, don't use legged vehicles because we can't effectively articulate them. This is changing. If you look at Boston Dynamic's latest robots for combat roles, they all have legs despite tracks being right there and easier to do. They're not crazy or stupid -- there's a darned good reason they're working so hard to build robots with legs to accompany troops or navigate in buildings.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
This isn't just the pattern of Star Wars, it's the general pattern of trilogies.
And therein, I believe, lies the answer. ESB is the first "bridge movie" that I can remember seeing in theatres. For example the old "Planet of the Apes" movies, most of which I saw in drive-in theatres as a kid, all could stand on their own. They were self-contained stories. Sure, you got a little more out of the story if you saw them all, but you really didn't need to.

You really need to see all of ANH/ESB/ROTJ to get the whole story, of the original trilogy. ANH can stand on its own. The purpose of ESB is to pull you back into the theatres for ROTJ. ESB can't stand on its own, because it doesn't tell a complete story without ROTJ.

It's the movie serial model, taken to it's logical conclusion. Buck Rogers and The Shadow would be jealous.
 
Last edited:

Gadget

Adventurer
I like how The Mandalorian reinforces this with its conversation between Mando and the Armorer about the Child's abilites.

Overall I think Filnoi actually cares about continuity and consistency.
See this I didn't quite get in the show. The Jedi at the time are still a living memory. Even if they were super rare such that the average Joe would never meet them, they were an integral part of the galaxy for millennia. From all the legends that would have grown up around them (the way everyone knows what a leprechaun or mermaid is) to the propaganda (Palpatine was subtly undermining them all through the Clone Wars, creating a perception that it was a "Jedi War"). That stuff gets ingrained in public culture and psyche over the centuries, having ever seen or met a Jedi or not. There were such things a holonet reports and such. Sure, some people, particularly the younger generation, might regard that as 'a bunch of hooey' or some such, but to be completely baffled by the mention of them or their powers?

The Mandalorian artificer knows vague legends about the Jedi-Mandalorian war from thousands of years ago, but nothing about more recent events in the galaxy which prominently featured them and included Mandalor?
 

And therein, I believe, lies the answer. ESB is the first "bridge movie" that I can remember seeing in theatres. For example the old "Planet of the Apes" movies, most of which I saw in drive-in theatres as a kid, all could stand on their own. They were self-contained stories. Sure, you got a little more out of the story if you saw them all, but you really didn't need to.

You really need to see all of ANH/ESB/ROTJ to get the whole story, of the original trilogy. ANH can stand on its own. The purpose of ESB is to pull you back into the theatres for ROTJ. ESB can't stand on its own, because it doesn't tell a complete story without ROTJ.

It's the movie serial model, taken to it's logical conclusion. Buck Rogers and The Shadow would be jealous.
And this is the best review of the movie that I've ever read.

The movie isn't meant to stand on its own, it's to make the original Star Wars no longer have to stand on its own, making a whole story that would eventually span 3 trilogies. A New Hope could and did stand alone. The Empire Strikes Back cannot, and that is its purpose. It succeeded at what it was trying to accomplish.
 

Janx

Hero
Legs are actually far better at stably navigating lots of types of difficult terrain. They work in mud, they work in shallow water, they work on steep slopes, they work in tight quarters, which are all places that tracks have issues. Sure, they have downsides, but tracked vehicles do, too; they're slow and less maneuverable.

Hover/repulsor has other issues, mostly that they really only work well on flatish ground and have the same issues in tight quarters than tracks do.

We, today, don't use legged vehicles because we can't effectively articulate them. This is changing. If you look at Boston Dynamic's latest robots for combat roles, they all have legs despite tracks being right there and easier to do. They're not crazy or stupid -- there's a darned good reason they're working so hard to build robots with legs to accompany troops or navigate in buildings.
Anywhere your four wheeler can go, a goat can go better. :)

You're spot on. We can sit here bragging about the engineering superiority of tracks or wheels, but when those get stuck, we get out and walk.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
See this I didn't quite get in the show. The Jedi at the time are still a living memory. Even if they were super rare such that the average Joe would never meet them, they were an integral part of the galaxy for millennia. From all the legends that would have grown up around them (the way everyone knows what a leprechaun or mermaid is) to the propaganda (Palpatine was subtly undermining them all through the Clone Wars, creating a perception that it was a "Jedi War"). That stuff gets ingrained in public culture and psyche over the centuries, having ever seen or met a Jedi or not. There were such things a holonet reports and such. Sure, some people, particularly the younger generation, might regard that as 'a bunch of hooey' or some such, but to be completely baffled by the mention of them or their powers?

The Mandalorian artificer knows vague legends about the Jedi-Mandalorian war from thousands of years ago, but nothing about more recent events in the galaxy which prominently featured them and included Mandalor?
Fair points all around.

With how The Clone Wars wrapped up it will be interesting to see how things are tackled in Season 2 of the Mandalorian.
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
There isn't any sort of logic that can properly explain the quickness with which jedi became "legend" by the time period of Ep.4. Even if the the Empire did nothing but stamp out any mention of them in records...there are just so many people left alive that knew of them in their own lifetimes.

Han Solo: I've been from one end of this galaxy and never seen any evidence of this magical force.
Obi-Wan: Mentions Yoda
R2D2: Beeps animatedly and shows a holo of Yoda projected on the chessboard.
Chewbacca: RAAAAAWR (translates to "Hey, he was cool. I gave that guy piggyback rides.")
Luke: Is there anyone here that DOESN'T know this dude?
 


Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top