"Why the Empire Strikes Back Is Overrated"

[Zardnaar]

You see, that's the point - I don't have to name them. I have to know they exist, know their function, and what general powers they possess. I know German Generals existed, had massive military might at their command, walked over large portions of Europe and took the most massive mobilization of out country's military might to beat. I do not scoff at those generals.

And those generals all lived and died before I was born.

Now, remember that scene in Star Wars, where a bunch of military commanders are making fun of the Jedi old religion to Vader's face. The men in the room with Vader were around for the Clone Wars. Any of them over the age of 40 were very likely in the military during the Clone Wars. They likely served under those Jedi generals!

How many saw the force in use?

IRL
It's probably because Star Wars was also self contained and expanded on later. Lucas didn't do the best job with the prequel Trilogy in that regard.

Pre 1999 it made a bit more sense especially in the Thrawn Trilogy.

There's a reason why there's only 3 good Star Wars films. Maybe 4 with Rogue One.

George changed his mind a lot, later writers didn't care.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

But the best to least best ranking for the OT is;

Return of The Jedi
Star Wars (A New Hope)
Empire Strikes Back

No one has commented on this?

No one?

This is not a take. This is not a hot take. This is ... blasphemy. Only a tool of the Ewok Plush Industry and the Death Star Recycling Lobby would have a ranking that looks like this.

This ranking? It's a trap!

 

[Zardnaar]

No one has commented on this?

No one?

This is not a take. This is not a hot take. This is ... blasphemy. Only a tool of the Ewok Plush Industry and the Death Star Recycling Lobby would have a ranking that looks like this.

This ranking? It's a trap!

Depends when you saw them.
As a kid in 80s I probably would have ranked them like that. I saw them out of order.

Jedi first at theatre, ESB audio book, then Star Wars on TV then ESB on VHS something like that.

I don't remember much of Jedi at theatre except being scared of Jabba and being there with my brother.

I never jumped on the Ewok hate bandwagon. That seemed to pick up steam in the 90s.

It was probably 1995 VHS release when I watched them in order and binged them.

I taped that SW TV show though. Watched so many times.

Jedi gets some flak it doesn't deserve. Best space battle, one if the best duals.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No one has commented on this?

No one?

This is not a take. This is not a hot take. This is ... blasphemy. Only a tool of the Ewok Plush Industry and the Death Star Recycling Lobby would have a ranking that looks like this.

This ranking? It's a trap!

Nope. Jedi is the best Star Wars, but it’s very close with Star Wars.

Depends when you saw them.
As a kid in 80s I probably would have ranked them like that. I saw them out of order.

Jedi first at theatre, ESB audio book, then Star Wars on TV then ESB on VHS something like that.

I don't remember much of Jedi at theatre except being scared of Jabba and being there with my brother.

I never jumped on the Ewok hate bandwagon. That seemed to pick up steam in the 90s.

I saw them in order.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nope. Jedi is the best Star Wars, but it’s very close with Star Wars.

I saw them in order.

I didn't. I understand that listing though. If you were young SW and Jedi probably easier to relate to. ESB is darker.

Jedi was probably my favorite late 80s. I switched to ESB in 95 or so.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

Now, remember that scene in Star Wars, where a bunch of military commanders are making fun of the Jedi old religion to Vader's face. The men in the room with Vader were around for the Clone Wars. Any of them over the age of 40 were very likely in the military during the Clone Wars. They likely served under those Jedi generals!

Keep in mind, however, that Empire propaganda has severely discredited the Jedi at this point. As demonstrated in the Clone Wars series, the Jedi... weren't always all that competent at leading. These professional officers, in addition to being steeped in Imperial propaganda, probably dismiss the Jedi as frauds with overhyped powers - some psychic abilities that give them an edge in personal combat doesn't translate to superiority in leadership, tactics, etc, and as a danger to the New Order the Emperor was right to purge them.

So it's not that the Jedi "weren't real", it's that their beliefs overblew what they were capable of and gave them an undeserved reputation. Thus Motti's dismissal of the Jedi is fully compatible with him "having been there" - he knows they exist, but thinks that beyond a few clever tricks they're fakes. Less like us looking back on WW II generals, and more like early 20th century Chinese intellectuals looking back on the collapse of the Confucian bureaucracy, or Red Guards in the Cultural Revolution dismissing "the Four Olds".

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Nope. Jedi is the best Star Wars, but it’s very close with Star Wars.

Return of the Jedi-

Cons
1. Has a completely nonsensical plot.
2. Has the inclusion of Ewoks for no reason other than to sell merchandise to small children who eat at McDonalds.
3. Made the whole "love triangle" with Luke, Leia and Han (and the kiss) really, really creepy. (And no, this was not planned).
4. Was the worst directed and edited of all the films.
5. Made the Empire and the Stormtroopers look like bumbling idiots they could never shoot that straight, but now they were comic relief, instead of being fearsome.
6. The Ewok party sucked.
7. Killed off Boba Fett (or whatever retcon you need for him climbing out of the pit) in the worst possible way.

etc.


Pros
1. Gold bikini.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I didn't. I understand that listing though. If you were young SW and Jedi probably easier to relate to. ESB is darker.

Jedi was probably my favorite late 80s. I switched to ESB in 95 or so.

Nope. My favorite as a kid was Star Wars.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Return of the Jedi-

Cons
1. Has a completely nonsensical plot.
2. Has the inclusion of Ewoks for no reason other than to sell merchandise to small children who eat at McDonalds.
3. Made the whole "love triangle" with Luke, Leia and Han (and the kiss) really, really creepy. (And no, this was not planned).
4. Was the worst directed and edited of all the films.
5. Made the Empire and the Stormtroopers look like bumbling idiots they could never shoot that straight, but now they were comic relief, instead of being fearsome.
6. The Ewok party sucked.
7. Killed off Boba Fett (or whatever retcon you need for him climbing out of the pit) in the worst possible way.

etc.


Pros
1. Gold bikini.

Nah. Not sure why you’re so invested in proving my opinion “wrong”, and I don’t particularly care. Feel free to bug someone else, though.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Nah. Not sure why you’re so invested in proving my opinion “wrong”

Because it makes me sad, in much the same way that it does when someone says that Dane Cook is the greatest comedian America has ever produced.

But I will not further disturb your love of the fuzzy little proto-Jar Jars.