Why the fear and hatred of Disjunction?

[Crothian]

I do not need to prove it. Having gamed for almost 30 years, I know that getting screwed by the DM is not fun for most players.

So, now this is getting screwed by the DM? Before it just wasn't fun, but now you've changed it to the DM actively screwing the players. Sounds like we are back to those trust issues.

Hey, I can play this game, too. Also having played for 30 years I think most players are smart enough to know that this is just part of the game and not the end of everything. Of course a Bad DM will use this to screw the players. I don't remove things from the game for fear of what a bad DM does. I find it easier to get rid of the bad DM

 

[icedrake]

Disjunction sucks just as much as save vs death affects.

 

[KarinsDad]

Of course a Bad DM will use this to screw the players. I don't remove things from the game for fear of what a bad DM does. I find it easier to get rid of the bad DM

This is not a case of bad DM versus good DM. This is the case of an overpowered spell whose sole purpose in the game system is to screw the players. The best DM in the world could accidentally have a TPK due to this one stupid overpowered spell. Course, the best DM in the world would be smart enough to not use it in the first place.

 

[Crothian]

This is not a case of bad DM versus good DM. This is the case of an overpowered spell whose sole purpose in the game system is to screw the players. The best DM in the world could accidentally have a TPK due to this one stupid overpowered spell. Course, the best DM in the world would be smart enough to not use it in the first place.

It's a 9th level spell, it shoulkd be really powerful. A good DM will know the spell is coming and be able to make sur ethe players are still able to have fun. So, skill of the DM does matter, it always matters. DMing isn't easy, high level D&D is even harder to DM.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's a 9th level spell, it shoulkd be really powerful. A good DM will know the spell is coming and be able to make sur ethe players are still able to have fun. So, skill of the DM does matter, it always matters. DMing isn't easy, high level D&D is even harder to DM.

"make sure the players are still able to have fun"?

Totally unlikely in any seriously rational and consistent game. Possible in a "anything can happen, no matter how bizarre wide open" type game.

It will be difficult if not impossible for any recovery from such a spell to not seem totally contrived to the players. Deux Es Machina for items. Since Fighters will tend to lose more items than Clerics, either the DM has to force the Fighters to get back up to par, or the players have to force this. The DM minimally has to allow the players to find enough treasure to come close to equating to the loss.

Good DMs do not spoon feed situations and this requires a spoon feed to recover from it (especially if the dice rolls are both fair and just happen to be bad rolls on average, a good DM does not control the dice). If not, then there is no recovery from it and players of some specific classes get screwed.

Either way, it is a lose lose situation and I seriously doubt most if any DMs (again, for a campaign that is serious and consistent, not one that is wacky) can handle this in a satisfactory manner.


Again, the concept that "anything can be fun" is lame since many situations are not fun. Item recovery fudging (or lack of recovery) is not fun. IMO. I'm sure that you will now respond that it is fun for other people. Yeah, whatever.

 

[Crothian]

Again, the concept that "anything can be fun" is lame since many situations are not fun. Item recovery fudging (or lack of recovery) is not fun. IMO. I'm sure that you will now respond that it is fun for other people. Yeah, whatever.

No, I will repond that I think you can only see one type of way to play the game. All your posts seem to be coming from one very rigid inflexiable viewpoint. You seem to have no ability to understand that people might not play like you do. And that people have fun doing so. And to such a degree you actually have to call it names. I find this sad.

 

[Ghendar]

It's not being wiped out. The spell is not going back in time and taking away all the fun we had for the past year. The spell is not destroying plots or sessions, it's just taking out some equipment. Equipment can be replaced. Go down to the local 7-11 magic store and buy more. Take a side adventure into the dungeon of magical treasure that exists in all campaign worlds.

I think this is more that there are players that cannot accept bad things happening to their character. And that's fine.

Well put. (bold emphasis mine)
Adventuring can be quite dangerous, you know.

 

[Ghendar]

This is a game. Games are meant to be fun.

Death isn't fun either.
However, I've had several pcs die and I still had fun. One of the most entertaining games I ever played in ended with the death of my pc. No, it wasn't planned that way.

I think, imho, that you put a little too much emphasis on player fun. If you yank that tiger's tail, it's going to scratch you. If you annoy that high level arcane caster, he just might disjunction you. It's all part of the dangrous life that adventurers having chosen to live.

I'm with Crothian on this one.

 

[el-remmen]

Hey all, just wanted to smear some spam into this thread and drop a link to a thread in general I started that it inspired: Magically Equipped vs. Unequipped: What is the Level Difference?

And for the record, I think losing all your stuff can still be fun. I also think that it can lead to passing annoyance or despair on the part of the players/characters - However, anyone who thinks it ruins the game, or can can't get past the annoyance of the moment to get back into character and into the game eager to find out "how we gonna get out of this one?" is not someone I want to play D&D with. . .

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

No, I will repond that I think you can only see one type of way to play the game. All your posts seem to be coming from one very rigid inflexiable viewpoint. You seem to have no ability to understand that people might not play like you do. And that people have fun doing so. And to such a degree you actually have to call it names. I find this sad.

QFT

There are various different playing styles, and to agree that MD might not be such a terrible spell that brings only bad things to the game, one must first accept that not all players focus their characters on magic items and overall power. There're lots of games going around that take a different approach, and MD will be seen just as another really powerful 9th level spell (and I still believe it's perfectly fine in terms of power, when compared to other spells of the same level).

If the spell is really screwing your game, just come into an agreement with the DM to ban it from play. If you're the DM, just don't use it. I can accept that MD just screws games that are based around the idea that characters should have a minimum magical equipment at a certain level, but the whole idea of gaining levels by killing monsters have been screwing the storytelling approach since the very first days, and we still find ways to play around it, I'm sure the MD haters will easily play around one spell as well.

Cheers,