Why the focus on *geography* in RPGing?

[Cadence]

Seriously: started with the Lord of the Rings (other original sources like Howard didn't bother with a map), and everyone went from there because it's fun to draw maps for a lot of people. The left-justified fantasy map trope starts because of the European origins, but people have pointed out Greyhawk looks kind of like the Upper Midwest.

In the published things Howard did describe the layout and history in broad strokes
Is there a Howard-canon map of Conan's world?

And apparently had a sketch for his own use ("secret DM info"?):

Certainly more than a bit European inspired.

 

[Blue Orange]

Defeated! Yeah, I guess it's part of the fantasy-world-building thing then.

 

[Cadence]

Defeated! Yeah, I guess it's part of the fantasy-world-building thing then.

I have a friend who thinks they draw really bad maps... I need to share that one with him.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

As I posted, I do depart from the published system in one respect: instead of rolling for a chance of a world in a hex, I roll for the number of "jump adjacent" worlds, and then put things together out of that.

Suppose that W has two adjacent worlds, and then I roll up one of them (X) and it has two adjacent worlds, and then I roll for one of those (Y), and it has two adjacent worlds, I have to decide whether W, X and Y make a triangle with no other worlds within jump-1, or whether they form a line ? - W - X - Y - ?

Sometimes prior determinations of adjacency will help influence that decision, but given that my ability to imagine distances in 3D space is not that good I'm mostly making somewhat arbitrary calls.

Right, your procedure will still produce basically the same kind of 'terrain' as the standard procedure, which is really what all the other stuff assumes/depends on. In one of my campaigns I constructed a 3d star map based on the positions of local stars. IIRC I had to tweak the definition of 'Jump 1' a little bit so it was usable, but you can tweak things a bit around the edges like that. However, if you, say, utilized the d6 Space notion of starship travel (which actually doesn't dictate its fictional description, but just tells you the factors involved in the time/difficulty of specific trips) then all the procedures which stem from starmap traits, like the travel and trade rules, would need to be significantly altered. I'm sure it wouldn't actually be a vast amount of trouble to do that, it would just be a question of why bother? I mean, maybe it would make a more interesting milieu in some sense, certainly one with a bit different feel! I mean, the Star Wars Imperium is much more like modern times with planets replacing cities, vs the 'age of sail' kind of feel of classic Traveller.

 

[chaochou]

My tentative conclusion is that "linear adventure" has two uses:

But why has this endured? Why is there such a concern over where things happen and who gets to decide where things happen?

Nearly all wargames feature forces on a map moving and fighting and D&D is, conceptually, a wargame. The popular way of playing that wargame is with a DM who sets up the fights in secret, and writes a script about why they matter, but that hasn't changed the move-and-fight model.

So we could define a linear adventure as one in which the GM determines what the characters will be doing at the macro level.

With the purpose of the characters set by the GM, there has to be a micro decision space for the players. And given that it's a wargame, that decision space is 'where to move our forces' whether that's in terms of a tactical decision about which five foot square to occupy relative to those hobgoblins, or choosing a route route through the wilderness to a town the GM says you need to get to, or mapping the dungeon the GM has sent you to.

The GM controls all the macro, so the geography - at whatever scale - combined with the enemy forces create the decision points for play.

 

[gamerprinter]

I don't think this is right. Just upthread I posted the value of a starmap in my Classic Traveller RPGing. That is not an exploration/hex crawl adventure, but the map's function is not as part of setup: it's mostly to adjudicate interstellar travel via providing an authoritative record of jump distances between worlds.

Would that suggest that if the players are establishing the setting, then a map is of less utility?

No, but players don't create the geography, even when establishing a setting. They aren't gods. And my inclusion regarding exploration/hex crawls, which I don't really run myself, and apparently not a consideration in your Traveller game, but doesn't mean that that kind of exploration cannot be done by somebody, and being provided a map of geography helps. I often develop settings, without an established adventure path using it - what stories and adventures can be had is up to the GM and group using a setting of mine. I provide the facility, even if it isn't used.

 

[niklinna]

No, but players don't create the geography, even when establishing a setting. They aren't gods.

I've played in plenty of games where players create geography. I'm playing in one now.

 

[Blue Orange]

No, but players don't create the geography, even when establishing a setting. They aren't gods. And my inclusion regarding exploration/hex crawls, which I don't really run myself, and apparently not a consideration in your Traveller game, but doesn't mean that that kind of exploration cannot be done by somebody, and being provided a map of geography helps. I often develop settings, without an established adventure path using it - what stories and adventures can be had is up to the GM and group using a setting of mine. I provide the facility, even if it isn't used.

With some of the more freeform games where parts of the game world don't exist until they're needed, it's possible for players to create geography, I guess.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Seriously: started with the Lord of the Rings (other original sources like Howard didn't bother with a map), and everyone went from there because it's fun to draw maps for a lot of people. The left-justified fantasy map trope starts because of the European origins, but people have pointed out Greyhawk looks kind of like the Upper Midwest.

Because the original campaign was set in a map that was, you guessed it, the Upper Midwest! It was more of a Castles & Crusades Society campaign map in origin, if I understand correctly. When publishing a campaign supplement for Greyhawk was taken up, Gary reportedly didn't really want to reveal his ACTUAL campaign maps, and employed Darlene Pekul to draw a more interesting map. I'm not sure how that process worked exactly, but either she started with the original maps, or Gary gave her notes, an outline, or feedback in some form as to how it should look. How close it is to the 'authentic' map(s) of Greyhawk I do not know, but I guess enough that some slight resemblance to its origin as a map of part of North America survives (though honestly I don't see the resemblance myself).

 

[Voadam]

Players can be co-authors of the shared fiction and create geography in the game. This can happen pre-game or during game. Lots of ways to do setting authorship in an RPG.