D&D 5E Why the heck does D&D have Hecate as Chaotic Evil

Spelljammer preview video has Hecate as Chaotic Evil, which has going WTF?

Out of all the faiths that believe in Hecate, only in certain Gnostic & Satanic (no I don't know why some Satanists worship Hecate, but they do) sects is Hecate viewed as evil. In the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, Hecate is referred to tender hearted. The Chaldean Oracles called her The Mother of Angels. The Neopatonists viewed her as omnibelevent.

For those of you who wonder why I wanted to see Jesus statted up with a loot table in the Biblical 5e setting, this kind of stuff is why.

And despite praying to Hecate daily, I'm not offended, a little blasmphy keeps Zealotry at bay and is spiritual valuable, I'm just disappointed that they have such a naughty word understanding of Hecate. If they wanted a Chaotic Evil Greek God, that is what Typhon is for.
 

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Yeah that's a pretty pathetic holdover of the worldviews of the early creators of D&D, frankly.

Hecate is CE because she's associated with witchcraft and witches are evil, right? I mean that's basically the logic. It's particularly dim-witted because as pagan gods go, Hecate is fairly popular today, so this is not un-akin to picking a minor Hindu deity, putting them in the game, and making them evil. Making her CN or CG would have made infinitely more sense.

Absolutely right re: Typhon, he's unequivocally CE - you could also easily say Chronos was. If we're going to say Hecate is CE, then really the Olympian gods should solely exist in the Evil spectrum.
 

Spelljammer preview video has Hecate as Chaotic Evil, which has going WTF?

Out of all the faiths that believe in Hecate, only in certain Gnostic & Satanic (no I don't know why some Satanists worship Hecate, but they do) sects is Hecate viewed as evil. In the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, Hecate is referred to tender hearted. The Chaldean Oracles called her The Mother of Angels. The Neopatonists viewed her as omnibelevent.

For those of you who wonder why I wanted to see Jesus statted up with a loot table in the Biblical 5e setting, this kind of stuff is why.

And despite praying to Hecate daily, I'm not offended, a little blasmphy keeps Zealotry at bay and is spiritual valuable, I'm just disappointed that they have such a naughty word understanding of Hecate. If they wanted a Chaotic Evil Greek God, that is what Typhon is for.
The disclaimer at the start of the Deities section states that they're not going for 100% historical accuracy, but to create complete pantheons based loosely on the deities in question. So, gods are going to be shifted around, sometimes quite substantially...
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I'd never have put Hecate as CE, mostly because I see her as far too Lawful. I do have her as LE, though: a Goddess of Knowledge to whom the ends - knowledge and learning - justify almost any means.

For a CE Greek deity, look no further than Ares. :)
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Spelljammer preview video has Hecate as Chaotic Evil, which has going WTF?
Which preview video is this? (I'm trying to figure out how Hecate even fits into Spelljammer and how it would come up).

Yeah that's a pretty pathetic holdover of the worldviews of the early creators of D&D, frankly.
Truth. Probably nobody on the dev team has a pagan friend (which is weird, given that they live in Seattle and I'd think there would be some pagan practitioners there. Even here in Ohio I have friends and acquaintances who are Wiccans).
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
The disclaimer at the start of the Deities section states that they're not going for 100% historical accuracy, but to create complete pantheons based loosely on the deities in question. So, gods are going to be shifted around, sometimes quite substantially...
I think the point is that they should be treading a bit more carefully around historical accuracy when statting up a deity that modern day religions still venerate. Getting Marduk wrong doesn't carry the same weight as statting up Vishnu and getting him wrong, for instance.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Truth. Probably nobody on the dev team has a pagan friend (which is weird, given that they live in Seattle and I'd think there would be some pagan practitioners there. Even here in Ohio I have friends and acquaintances who are Wiccans).
Either that or they're quite intentionally changing it all up so as not to tread on the toes of actual worshippers.

For my part, I mostly use the Xena-Hercules versions - far more fun! :)
 




Are they actually covering Gods in this set as well?!?

I didn't think Wizards would do it.
I've watched previews of the monster and setting books in the set, but not the adventure. Since I haven't seen any references to her, I'm assuming it's an NPC who worships her, or some site associated with her, from the adventure book.

She's already in the PHB deities list as CE, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly an issue for the OP now, instead of years ago...
 

She's lawful evil in the 1e version of DDG. (Carries 2 spheres of annihilation and has 9 hellhounds of maximum HP.) "Any being working with magic" might worship her, though.

Neutral evil in 3e. Portfolio's listed as moon, magic, abundance, undead.

So it goes back a while.
In the ancient world gods were seen as superior beings with rulership over some area of the world, and if you wanted something it was wise to placate them. So a non-evil person might pray to an evil god if they ruled over something they wanted, though of course they would be wary. (Basically in the way you'd bribe an official to get your paperwork done faster, in a society where that's expected--and the Chinese pantheon was a bureaucracy!) The idea of good people worshipping good gods and evil people worshipping evil gods is kind of Abrahamic, I think.
 

I think the point is that they should be treading a bit more carefully around historical accuracy when statting up a deity that modern day religions still venerate. Getting Marduk wrong doesn't carry the same weight as statting up Vishnu and getting him wrong, for instance.

People still worship Marduk too, although not in as great numbers as Hecate, never mind Vishnu.

The Complete Book of Marduk by Nabu: A Pocket Anunnaki Devotional Companion to Babylonian Prayers & Rituals: Free, Joshua: 9780578470320: Books - Amazon.ca

They should at least seperate the Gnostic Hecate from the Greek Hecate (Classical/Chaldean Oracle/Neoplatonist understandings) and her Wiccan offshoot.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Yeah that's a pretty pathetic holdover of the worldviews of the early creators of D&D, frankly.

Hecate is CE because she's associated with witchcraft and witches are evil, right? I mean that's basically the logic. It's particularly dim-witted because as pagan gods go, Hecate is fairly popular today, so this is not un-akin to picking a minor Hindu deity, putting them in the game, and making them evil. Making her CN or CG would have made infinitely more sense.

She's already in the PHB deities list as CE, so I'm not sure why this is suddenly an issue for the OP now, instead of years ago...

She's lawful evil in the 1e version of DDG. (Carries 2 spheres of annihilation and has 9 hellhounds of maximum HP.) "Any being working with magic" might worship her, though.

Neutral evil in 3e. Portfolio's listed as moon, magic, abundance, undead.

So it goes back a while.
Yup. This goes back to the original Deities & Demigods. And it's all just based on the impression that Jim Ward got from old mythology textbooks he got from the library, and what he thought would be fun in the game.
 

Why is she even in this product?

Why does a god need a Spelljammer?

Polish_20220808_134646894.png
 


dave2008

Legend
Are they actually covering Gods in this set as well?!?

I didn't think Wizards would do it.
Do what? 5e has talked about gods from the beginning and provided game stats on occasion. However, to be clear, there are no game stats for gods in the forthcoming spelljammer set.
 


Scribe

Hero
Do what? 5e has talked about gods from the beginning and provided game stats on occasion. However, to be clear, there are no game stats for gods in the forthcoming spelljammer set.
The beginning of 5e is no longer in line with (imo) Wizards outlook on the game.

I thought a few years ago Wizards had been sidelining gods, and we wouldn't see their 'modern' take until planescape.
 

Which preview video is this? (I'm trying to figure out how Hecate even fits into Spelljammer and how it would come up).
Hecate is listed in the Astral Drifter background as one of several gods that your character had a "Divine Contact" with and learned some secret or cosmic lore. The options given are as follows (and I added their alignment and source pantheon):
  • Corellon (CG, elves)
  • Tymora (CG, Forgotten Realms)
  • Fharlanghn (NG, Greyhawk)
  • Istus (N, Greyhawk)
  • Nuada (N, Celtic)
  • Zivilyn (N, Dragonlance)
  • Arawn (NE, Celtic)
  • Hecate (CE, Greek)
  • Celestian (N, Greyhawk)
  • Ptah (LN, Egyptian)
  • "or work with your DM to identify a more suitable choice"
 

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