Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Come, now, it's D&D. You clearly mean "...elf any other way in."Oh absolutely. The number of gamers who come into the hobby by way of DnD dwarfs any other way in.
Come, now, it's D&D. You clearly mean "...elf any other way in."Oh absolutely. The number of gamers who come into the hobby by way of DnD dwarfs any other way in.
LOL.Come, now, it's D&D. You clearly mean "...elf any other way in."
I hate that this is true, but this is true.My point being, nothing draws in new gamers like D&D. Two years of no WotC publications and the gaming market did... nothing. Sat there, coasting on autopilot at around that 10 or 15 million dollars a year mark. It's not like even Paizo was pulling in large numbers of new gamers.
The flow of warm bodies into the hobby goes in one direction only. Pull D&D out of the mix, and the hobby will coast on autopilot for a few years and then die as no new gamers come in. It's a sad truth, but, it's still the truth AFAIC.
Oh, totally.I hate that this is true, but this is true.
5e started using a lot of the old lore, but they've been using less and less over the years, and that process has accelerated recently.Hmm. I think they do use a fair amount of old lore.
One thing I think they're sensitive to in 5E design that they were less so in 4E design is look and feel. Does Fireball look and FEEL like Fireball? How about Magic Missile? How about Wizards? Does the Wizard class do the stuff a player expects a D&D Wizard to be able to do?
Where 4E had (for example) a Daily spell called Fireball, it represented a much more significant mechanical departure. The square (cube) shape, for example. The base damage being much lower on first glance. The fact that as a Daily power you couldn't "memorize" it multiple times.
The 5E design hearkens back much more to the look and feel of 1E Fireball. Even the fact that they boosted the damage above what would be expected by the general design guidelines, to better fulfill the memetic IDEA of Fireball in the mass consciousness.
LOL.
But, I do think this is a point that gets kind of ignored though. I mean people often lauded the 3pp games for expanding the hobby. Things like Mutants and Masterminds or whatever. Lots of incredibly creative stuff. But, my question was always about that "expanding" part. How many people's first RPG was Mutants and Masterminds (or whatever) and not D&D?
Yes, yes, I know YOU in the back started with some other game. Thank you, you can sit down now.
My point being, nothing draws in new gamers like D&D. Two years of no WotC publications and the gaming market did... nothing. Sat there, coasting on autopilot at around that 10 or 15 million dollars a year mark. It's not like even Paizo was pulling in large numbers of new gamers.
The flow of warm bodies into the hobby goes in one direction only. Pull D&D out of the mix, and the hobby will coast on autopilot for a few years and then die as no new gamers come in. It's a sad truth, but, it's still the truth AFAIC.
Oh, totally.
I mean, it's really hard sometimes to try to get people who've only gamed D&D to try other games. And then, when you finally manage to convince those four or five people to try this new game, something you've been jonesing to run for ages and have spent an embarrassing amount of time thinking about and planning, and within 15 minutes, it's a D&D game in everything but name.![]()
In the 90's and early 00's, a TON of people came in via Vampire and licensed RPGs like the various BESM spinoffs for specific anime, and Call of Cthulu. Shadowrun as no slouch of pulling people either.LOL.
But, I do think this is a point that gets kind of ignored though. I mean people often lauded the 3pp games for expanding the hobby. Things like Mutants and Masterminds or whatever. Lots of incredibly creative stuff. But, my question was always about that "expanding" part. How many people's first RPG was Mutants and Masterminds (or whatever) and not D&D?
Even beyond that: anything which contributes to retaining people in the hobby overall is a good thing.In the 90's and early 00's, a TON of people came in via Vampire and licensed RPGs like the various BESM spinoffs for specific anime, and Call of Cthulu. Shadowrun as no slouch of pulling people either.
Now the interesting thing is, a lot of these entrants came in though the accessibility of d20 adaptations. So really, d20 is to thank for a lot of the uptick in RPG popularity, not D&D specifically.
The first game I OWNED was D&D. The first game I PLAYED was TMNT and Other Strangeness.LOL.
But, I do think this is a point that gets kind of ignored though. I mean people often lauded the 3pp games for expanding the hobby. Things like Mutants and Masterminds or whatever. Lots of incredibly creative stuff. But, my question was always about that "expanding" part. How many people's first RPG was Mutants and Masterminds (or whatever) and not D&D?
Yes, yes, I know YOU in the back started with some other game. Thank you, you can sit down now.
My point being, nothing draws in new gamers like D&D. Two years of no WotC publications and the gaming market did... nothing. Sat there, coasting on autopilot at around that 10 or 15 million dollars a year mark. It's not like even Paizo was pulling in large numbers of new gamers.
The flow of warm bodies into the hobby goes in one direction only. Pull D&D out of the mix, and the hobby will coast on autopilot for a few years and then die as no new gamers come in. It's a sad truth, but, it's still the truth AFAIC.
Man, what a fun game. Even if Palladium's rules set was...decidedly quirky.The first game I OWNED was D&D. The first game I PLAYED was TMNT and Other Strangeness.
Heh, I LOVED that game. Played the hell out of it. I have to admit, I was lucky that back in the day we got to play all sorts of different games. Now? Good grief, I suggest a couple of week holiday from D&D and my players act like I suggested unnatural acts with puppies.The first game I OWNED was D&D. The first game I PLAYED was TMNT and Other Strangeness.
There's a lot of games that I missed the boat on, and now, I'll never know what I was missing. Like Traveller or Talisanta.Heh, I LOVED that game. Played the hell out of it. I have to admit, I was lucky that back in the day we got to play all sorts of different games. Now? Good grief, I suggest a couple of week holiday from D&D and my players act like I suggested unnatural acts with puppies.Just not going to happen.
I was lucky enough to manage to get a year out of the group of game hopping back at the tail end of 3e early 4e. But, since then? Yeah, it's been D&D or nothing.I really want to try out that Star Trek game but, sigh.
Hell I have a boat load of games i picked up a few years back that I know I'm never going to get a chance to play. 3:16 Carnage Beyond the Stars is something I REALLY want to test drive, but, that ship sailed a long time ago.There's a lot of games that I missed the boat on, and now, I'll never know what I was missing. Like Traveller or Talisanta.
Not really. 5e actually changed a lot of lore even at the outset. But as so much of the base lore was no longer tied to the World Axis, so a lot of people overlooked those lore changes because they assumed it was the same or were just happy that 4e's World Axis was gone.5e started using a lot of the old lore, but they've been using less and less over the years, and that process has accelerated recently.
I've found that online play definitely makes it easier to find people interested in other games. It's not nearly as easy as D&D, but your pool is larger- you can logistically get players from around the world into the same game.Hell I have a boat load of games i picked up a few years back that I know I'm never going to get a chance to play. 3:16 Carnage Beyond the Stars is something I REALLY want to test drive, but, that ship sailed a long time ago.
Planescape, and there were a number of Planescape fans who were pretty vocal about the planar changes during the Edition Wars as a result.What always struck me as funny about people who didn't like the reordering of the Outer Planes is how rarely they are ever used in the first place. How many games are really centered around plane hopping as a matter of course?
Not just heavy, but also the purchasing required to learn a new game/system. D&D often gets us in the habit of buying three hardback books plus player supplement after supplement or adventure path after adventure path. If you think that this is the norm for TTRPGs, then it's understandable that the idea of buying into a new game/system would seem daunting. But yeah, many TTRPG don't require nearly as much financial investment as D&D.I've noticed something a little different in the past 10 years. I have had two 5E games wrap up one way or another. Probably about half the players are first time RPG players, the other half are long time D&D returners. Both groups eagerly jumped at the chance to try a new genre/system. In past, a lot of the players I knew and gamed with didnt want to learn a new system. I blame some of that on D&D popularity, but I think the bigger culprit was how heavy a lot of systems were a few decades ago. Thats a lot of homework when you have barely mastered the beast that is D&D.