Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

Is this true, though? I haven't seen anything in any setting or rulebook that says it is. Any PC that wants to be a mage can be one, like any PC can be a bard with a lovely singing voice, or a sorcerer with the right bloodlines, or a fighter with physical prowess above normal. That you automatically qualify as a PC to learn magic doesn't mean it's a skill that can be taught anyone. This is an assumption, not a fact. It could go either way, and, in fact, it's entirely up to you how it works -- the rules don't care.
Yep. In Keith Baker's Eberron, magic is a skill that almost anyone can be taught. - However Magewrights and Wandslingers are much more limited in most ways than PC classes.
A Wizard is still exceptional, even though simply being able to use magic isn't.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Yep. In Keith Baker's Eberron, magic is a skill that almost anyone can be taught. - However Magewrights and Wandslingers are much more limited in most ways than PC classes.
A Wizard is still exceptional, even though simply being able to use magic isn't.
In Eberron, yes. Eberron is specifically called out as a setting that does that. The DMG says that the default is that spellcasters are relatively few in number, with some remote villages that haven't seen any in generations. If anyone could learn magic, that wouldn't be true.
 

In Eberron, yes. Eberron is specifically called out as a setting that does that. The DMG says that the default is that spellcasters are relatively few in number, with some remote villages that haven't seen any in generations. If anyone could learn magic, that wouldn't be true.
That doesn't follow. You wouldn't expect a remote village to have a spellcaster, for the same reason you wouldn't expect them to have a lawyer.

Learning an academic skill requires a teacher, money and time. People who live in villages are too busy producing the food they need to live to spend time studying the law or magic.

Even in Eberron, if you live in a village, and want to see a dentist, or a lawyer, or a silversmith, or a magewright you need to travel to a town or city, and the best wizards have spent years studying at prestigious (and expensive) colleges.
 


Aldarc

Legend
Ok. What level of design are you talking about, then? Honest question.
Perhaps it would help if you would understand that I'm not really talking about design at all, but mainly aesthetics and the metatextual approaches to magic and psionics. Can these things have design implications? Sure. But that was not my aim with my comments. It was more about the general observation of magic as science in D&D and how psionics fits in relation to that.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Perhaps it would help if you would understand that I'm not really talking about design at all, but mainly aesthetics and the metatextual approaches to magic and psionics. Can these things have design implications? Sure. But that was not my aim with my comments. It was more about the general observation of magic as science in D&D and how psionics fits in relation to that.
It might be my engineering background, but aesthetics is very much a design input, sometimes one of the more important (look at Mac users back when they were inferior machines). A lot of the discussion about how psionics should be in 5e has been about aesthetics. The no VSM, for instance, has been aesthetic driven, not balance or mechanics. If you have a required or even desired aesthetic, that's a design input.

And, on this one, I see where you're coming from, but magic in D&D feels sciency because there's no restrictions on the PC side to take it -- you're always have the spark, so to speak. This will be the same for psionics -- PCs will always have the necessary talent for psionics. So, unless the setting or the GM drives this distinction, it'll always end up as another flavor of magic.

The pointed end of this is that you need to consider how much this aesthetic will impact ypur enjoyment of whatever treatment psionics gets. If it does, then this is absolutely a design input. If it's not something you really care for, it's not. But, you can't have an aesthetic expectation and not have it be a design input. They aren't severable things.
 


Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from; I'm genuinely trying to have a constructive discussion. But, if you're not interested, cool. I suppose it's perfectly fine to engage by sharing your thoughts but not want to discuss compromise in design. I think, though, that's a recipe for disappointment -- having strong feelings but not discussing how they might look in design is a very likely way to end up with a design that doesn't meet your wants. You might get lucky, though. I'll root for you.
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
Even in Eberron, if you live in a village, and want to see a dentist, or a lawyer, or a silversmith, or a magewright you need to travel to a town or city, and the best wizards have spent years studying at prestigious (and expensive) colleges.
Nah, the best wizard teachers live all alone in a tower at the edge of civilization, or the to of a mountain, etc. ;)
 


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