Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Chaosmancer]

The ridiculous notion that @Chaosmancer put forward that the fighter would need to have basic ability in all of those.

I did not put that idea forward. You did. Remember the section you bolded?

This is what the PHB has to say about the fighter.

"Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor."

That doesn't take years to learn. It's not all that hard to become a fighter, which is why Timmy on the Farm can pick up a pitchfork after his family is killed by orcs and go be a fighter really easily.

I was simply pointing out what that would mean. And it doesn't mean that Timmy the Farmhand who once stabbed a goblin with a pitchfork is suddenly a Fighter. Not unless he learned a lot in an incredibly short amount of time.

 

[Maxperson]

I did not put that idea forward. You did. Remember the section you bolded?

That was talking about those 6 styles I listed. That absurdity was all you. Own your actions man.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

That was talking about those 6 styles I listed. That absurdity was all you. Own your actions man.

So your words mean literally nothing, thanks for admitting that.

 

[Maxperson]

So your words mean literally nothing, thanks for admitting that.

Are you really incapable of understanding what quotation marks mean? Those weren't my words. I literally said, "This is what the PHB has to say about the fighter."

 

[PsyzhranV2]

That was talking about those 6 styles I listed. That absurdity was all you. Own your actions man.

"Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor."

A normal person reading the excerpt would assume that sentence 2 (in blue) follows from sentence 1 (in red); namely, that it is an expansion of sentence 1. If condensed into one sentence, it might read: "Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles, knowing how to fight with axes, rapiers, longswords, greatswords, bows, nets, as well as knowing how to use shields and all forms of armour". Nothing in that excerpt indicates that it is specifically talking about the Fighting Style class feature on the next page in the PHB. Rather, it gives the impression that Fighters know how to use every form of arms and armour in the book simply by dint of being Fighters, despite every weapon requiring quite different bodily mechanics and technique repertoire to use proficiently. A Level 1 Fighter is thus by RAW a martial prodigy; Timmy the Farmhand can't be a farmhand.

 

[Maxperson]

"Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor."

A normal person reading the excerpt would assume that sentence 2 (in blue) follows from sentence 1 (in red); namely, that it is an expansion of sentence 1. If condensed into one sentence, it might read: "Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles, knowing how to fight with axes, rapiers, longswords, greatswords, bows, nets, as well as knowing how to use shields and all forms of armour". Nothing in that excerpt indicates that it is specifically talking about the Fighting Style class feature on the next page in the PHB. Rather, it gives the impression that Fighters know how to use every form of arms and armour in the book simply by dint of being Fighters, despite every weapon requiring quite different bodily mechanics and technique repertoire to use proficiently.

You left out the next sentence which says,

"Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat."

The context is clearly regarding the styles in the class. It even goes on in the next sentence and talks about those fighting styles. I didn't quote the whole thing, because I figured you guys would read it and understand the context. If not, my bad.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

You left out the next sentence which says,

"Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat."

The context is clearly regarding the styles in the class. I didn't quote the whole thing, because I figured you guys would read it and understand the context. If not, my bad.

So weapon proficiencies are worthless and only fighting style should be a thing, going by this one sentence in a description of a single class, am I getting that right?

 

[Chaosmancer]

That was talking about those 6 styles I listed. That absurdity was all you. Own your actions man.

So, now "Combat Style" means the "Fighting Style" ability?

Good to know we can just change names of abilities.

You left out the next sentence which says,

"Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat."

The context is clearly regarding the styles in the class. It even goes on in the next sentence and talks about those fighting styles. I didn't quote the whole thing, because I figured you guys would read it and understand the context. If not, my bad.

"The basics" of every fighting style using every weapon, including dual weapons and shield use. Even if you are only talking about a single geographical regions, knife fighting is different than sword fighting is different from rapier fighting is different from whip fighting is different from...

It is still a massive amount of knowledge.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

You left out the next sentence which says,

"Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat."

The context is clearly regarding the styles in the class. I didn't quote the whole thing, because I figured you guys would read it and understand the context. If not, my bad.

Okay, let's play that game then.

Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor. Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat. Some concentrate on archery, some on fighting with two weapons at once, and some on augmenting their martial skills with magic. This combination of broad general ability and extensive specialization makes fighters superior combatants on battlefields and in dungeons alike.

Proposition 1: Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles.
Proposition 2: This means that they know how to use a wide variety of arms and armour.
Proposition 3: Fighters choose one skill out of the many they know to specialize in.
Proposition 4: Fighters are superior combatants because of this blend of breadth and depth.

Proposition 3, the specialization of a Fighter, does not invalidate Proposition 2, their wide range of skill. A Fighter may specialize in ranged weaponry, but that doesn't mean they're bad up close, and vice versa. And choosing a Fighting Style does not invalidate their global weapon and armour proficiencies.

As well, "Fighting Style" is never mentioned in the text. The closest mention of that we have is Proposition 3, but that statement also references the Eldritch Knight subclass, so it can't purely be talking about the Fighting Style class feature.

Finally, the Fighting Style class feature is additive to the Fighter's fighting ability. Specializing in one Fighting Style gives them bonuses to that style, but does not penalize them for using weaponry outside of their style. A Level 1 Fighter still has a wide breadth of martial knowledge and skill that in real life would take years to build up, even outside of their specialization.

 

[Maxperson]

Okay, let's play that game then.

Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles. Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a rapier, wield a longsword or a greatsword, use a bow, and even trap foes in a net with some degree of skill. Likewise, a fighter is adept with shields and every form of armor. Beyond that basic degree of familiarity, each fighter specializes in a certain style of combat. Some concentrate on archery, some on fighting with two weapons at once, and some on augmenting their martial skills with magic. This combination of broad general ability and extensive specialization makes fighters superior combatants on battlefields and in dungeons alike.

Proposition 1: Fighters learn the basics of all combat styles.
Proposition 2: This means that they know how to use a wide variety of arms and armour.
Proposition 3: Fighters choose one skill out of the many they know to specialize in.
Proposition 4: Fighters are superior combatants because of this blend of breadth and depth.

Proposition 3, the specialization of a Fighter, does not invalidate Proposition 2, their wide range of skill. A Fighter may specialize in ranged weaponry, but that doesn't mean they're bad up close, and vice versa. And choosing a Fighting Style does not invalidate their global weapon and armour proficiencies.

As well, "Fighting Style" is never mentioned in the text. The closest mention of that we have is Proposition 3, but that statement also references the Eldritch Knight subclass, so it can't purely be talking about the Fighting Style class feature.

Finally, the Fighting Style class feature is additive to the Fighter's fighting ability. Specializing in one Fighting Style gives them bonuses to that style, but does not penalize them for using weaponry outside of their style. A Level 1 Fighter still has a wide breadth of martial knowledge and skill that in real life would take years to build up, even outside of their specialization.

It doesn't take years to get a basic level of skill in the use of weapons. It says basic, not highly skilled. Yes, it would take years to become highly skilled in all of those weapons. Getting a basic level of skill doesn't take long at all. Take basic math. It doesn't take long to learn 2+2=4

Would it take longer than 1 day? Yes. There is a disconnect still, but less severe than becoming a Wizard in 1 day.