D&D 5E Why use initiative?

[Scruffy nerf herder]

When I’ve used this system, what I’ve done is roll once for each group of mobs that take the same action (or category of action). So, one roll for all the enemy archers, one for all the enemy casters, one roll for all the enemy melee combatants. I prefer not to add an extra die for movement, so that hasn’t been an issue for me. I suppose, if I wanted to add that factor in, I would have them move or not move in groups - either the enemy archers all stay in place, or the whole block takes the penalty so the units have the option to move if they need to.

Yep, that aspect of it is pretty easy to handle for any DM who is already experienced with handling larger scale battles with lots of mobs. Whatever you can roll as a group for them you do, saves time for you and leaves more time for player fun.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think if I was going to use an initiative system like this again (and I’ve considered it many times), I would actually get rid of the different dice for different attack types element to further streamline it. Top of the round, everyone declares an action (Attack, Cast a Spell, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Ready, Search, Use an Object, or Other), in ascending order of Wisdom, then rolls a d6. Then everyone takes their turns in ascending order of number rolled (to keep with the standardization of higher rolls = better), with higher Dexterity being the tie breaker. On your turn, you can move up to your speed, take the action you declared at the top of the round, and take up to one bonus action.

Optionally, you could allow a character who for whatever reason can’t take the action they initially declared to Dodge or something instead.

 

[Deset Gled]

D4 for ranged. D8 for melee. D12 for spellcasting. +D6 to move and/or do something. The lower rolls go first. This process occurs at the beginning of each round.

What happens if I want to change my action based on what happens during the round? Am I forced to decide what I do before the round starts? Including movement?

 

[Helldritch]

What happens if I want to change my action based on what happens during the round? Am I forced to decide what I do before the round starts? Including movement?

The declaration phase is exactly for that. A round is only 6 seconds. Not one minute...
What I do allow, is if your original target is down, you can change the target.
Declaration phase: I charge at the archer in the back.
On your turn that round, the archer is killed. You can still charge an other target or simply move and attack. The basic intention here is to give a hint. I do the same with monsters.
Or I should say, used to do. We moved to side initiative since last year. It speeds things even faster.

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

What happens if I want to change my action based on what happens during the round? Am I forced to decide what I do before the round starts? Including movement?

Nope. Want to add an action? Communicate that to the DM then roll another die.

And yes, of course you'll want to change what you're doing. But you only picked a category of action in the first place and can always tack on a new action.

 

[Charlaquin]

What happens if I want to change my action based on what happens during the round? Am I forced to decide what I do before the round starts? Including movement?

At least in the Mearls version, you have to declare if you’re going to move, but not where you’re going to move. Likewise, you have to declare if you’re going to make a melee attack, ranged attack, spell, or other action, but not your target(s) or what specific spell or whatever.

 

[DND_Reborn]

What happens if I want to change my action based on what happens during the round? Am I forced to decide what I do before the round starts? Including movement?

We play you declare your intention for the round. It is only six seconds, and if you start doing one thing and change your mind, you could easily run out of time.

Currently, since we resolve each action individually (instead of one person doing all their actions first, etc.), if you change your action, you just lose your current spot and can act on your next action instead. It more accurately reflects changing your mind in the middle of the round due to events unfolding.

It does mean you have to make some choices and decide if sticking to them and acting now is better or changing your mind and acting later.

 

[MarkB]

Some time after I first tried DMing 5th edition, I ran into a video by Matt Colville in his Running the Game series on YouTube. In it he mentioned a really cool alternative to initiative that one of the creators of 5E came up with:

D4 for ranged. D8 for melee. D12 for spellcasting. +D6 to move and/or do something. The lower rolls go first. This process occurs at the beginning of each round.

There are a couple of things that this accomplishes extremely well. The more actions you make, the longer you will need to perform them. Also some actions are more complicated and take more time to perform.

Not only is this more immersive when players think about how long it will take them to do what they want to do, but it actively encourages players to have fun strategizing with each other during many rounds. It also adds a very welcome layer to the strategy because now players can actually try to get an earlier initiative on a given turn, and they have to think about the cost/benefit ratio for the things that they do. E.g. "how can I heal Rumlar, and do it quick?"

So IMO this alternative is not only mechanically superior but it is more immersive. It makes combat feel real.

As a player I'd hate this system. Having to choose what, and how much, I'm going to do at the start of the round, before my turn comes up, and then finding that my chosen action may be invalid or counterproductive once I actually get to do it - I can't stand that kind of system. I've tried them a few times and never got along with them.

 

[Yaarel]

I never tried it but it has always bothered me that ranged actions had the lowest modifier. That makes no sense to me, you need time to aim with a ranged attack that you don't with melee and it takes longer to get to its target! I would do it like:

d6 melee
d8 ranged
d10 magic

and maybe +d4 if you include movement.

d4 move
d6 melee
d8 cantrip
d10 range
d12 spell

 

[toucanbuzz]

This thread resurrects itself every 3-4 months and generally bogs down into the "that won't work and I'd never use it" and "we use it and it's great" camps. First, let's get past the 2 big points.

Disclaimer: I've been using a variant of what the OP discussed for 5+ years. It's great.

1. Rules of any kind can be complex until you play them for awhile, then they're old news. So that shouldn't dissuade people from trying something new in their game.
2. If something sounds cool, great, but ask what you're wanting to do in your game. What does this new rule add that makes the game more enjoyable? And, can we add this new rule without slowing down our game too much?

Here's what we use.

Is it faster/slower than default initiative? Faster, much much faster. Why? Because all 5 players and the DM are simultaneously deciding what to do, not one at a time. Players are making the best decision as they see it, not a perfect one, and it corrects "analysis paralysis." My combats run so much faster than the default days. It took about 3 combats for players to start getting used to the house rule without looking at a cheat sheet.

What does it add to your game? Unpredictability and tension. No one is guaranteed to go in a particular order each round.

Can I lose my turn by declaring actions? Maybe, but no differently than if you're a melee attacker in D&D and your target moves to the air and you can't reach them. In 5+ years, I've seen less than 5 times a PC made such a boneheaded decision on what to do that they screwed themselves over from acting. Players are reading the battlefield and making optimal decisions as they see it. Ultimately, in my "notes on use," I have a "defer to letting a player act" policy so that if a PC gets grappled and had a weapon ready to attack, they can sub in an action to using that weapon to try and escape. But, if you were moving your hands and incanting fireball, you don't get to fudge those words to mean lightning bolt.

Bonus actions? Aren't declared. They happen so quickly little preparation is needed. In a prior edition, they were called "swift" actions.

Are monsters too much to handle? Yes, as is. Players only have to track the player, but the DM might be tracking a dozen creatures. The DM needed a shortcut. So, monsters have 2 rules. If using a Natural Attack (like claw/bite), they use the d4 unarmed strike. If you're wondering why, do a search for the bear attack on Leonardo DiCaprio's character in The Revenant. Everything else no matter the Action uses the monster's HD.

Movement? Tried a variant that considered adding a die for "reserving" the option to move. Too many die rolls (see the DM). Alternately, I have toyed with the idea of simply having anyone who wants to "reserve" the option to move to add +1 or maybe +2 to their roll. This would add strategy to the round and reward attackers who "have their feet set," but so far I haven't tried it.

Anyhow, to be civil folks, whatever works for your game table is best. Whatever works for my game table is best.