Why was "knock back" never a combat maneuver in the game?

[Stuntman]

If everyone had the ability to strike at a target and then push the target back and knock it prone, then what would be the point of making a standard attack, a bull rush or trip? If everyone can do A, B and C, then what would be the point of doing only A, only B or only C.

The other thing is that the big haymaker/knockback maneuver is not something that is done every single time on every single attack. If you look at movies or TV, you will find that there are many standard attacks that just hit the target and the target takes damage and nothing else. Generally, only weak targets that go down in one hit are knocked back consistently. For major characters it happens to them much less often than normal blows landing.

If it is a weak target that dies in one hit, you can describe it as cinematic as you like. The end result is the target going down. For stronger targets, it's likely not going to happen unless you use some special attack that can do this or if it is the killing blow.

 

[Raven Crowking]

If everyone had the ability to strike at a target and then push the target back and knock it prone, then what would be the point of making a standard attack, a bull rush or trip?

If everyone can do a trip, what is the point of making a standard attack?

The standard attack is easier, and more likely to succeed.

Trading lower odds for a bigger effect is a tactical decision. It is not always the right decision.


RC

 

[Nebten]

Also, knocking somebody away from you is a tactile disadvantage. As a fighter, you want to be able to perform a full round worth of attacks. If you knock them away, now you have to move back to continue attacking the enemy, only getting one attack.

Another thing is that its just flavor. Bull Rush provides the rules for what you want done, but you can discribe it as a 1-inch punch that knocks the guy 10 feet away. Trip provides how to knock somebody prone, but you can describe it as a hip throw.

 

[LostSoul]

If everyone had the ability to strike at a target and then push the target back and knock it prone, then what would be the point of making a standard attack, a bull rush or trip? If everyone can do A, B and C, then what would be the point of doing only A, only B or only C.

One way is to make this sort of thing dependent on the details of what's occurring at the moment in the game world.

You can always swing your sword at a target. You may not always be able to knock your target back and to the ground. Maybe he has to be off-balance first.

 

[coyote6]

I would often describe a big hit that dropped an opponent as sending them flying through the air. In most movies, it's basically a visual component, with no real effect on the fight, so I generally treat it as such.

 

[catsclaw227]

Let your fighter use skill ranks to buy back maneuver costs.

Thus, a fighter could have 8 ranks in knock back, allowing him to use the maneuver at a cost of 4 points of BAB.

OK, that makes sense.

Now, the only concern I would have would be people ditching any other non-combat related skills because they are min-maxing their maneuvers. (Note: I recognize that min-maxing is done anyway by certain types of players, regardless of edition).

 

[Raven Crowking]

I'm supposed to be gone for the holidays, but.....

In RCFG, I seperated skill points for skills and weapon skills. If you give each class a limited number of sp just for maneuvers, and don't allow "general" sp to be used for the same, you should be okay. Note also that characters will naturally develop their own fighting styles over time on the basis of how they allocate these points.


RC

 

[Jhaelen]

I always liked what they did in Runequest:

When you critted with a blunt weapon you knocked your target back, when you critted with a piercing weapon you impaled your target (and there was a chance the weapon would get stuck).

D&D (3e) had other ways to make different weapons 'feel' different but nothing as cool as the Runequest approach.

 

[rexartur]

Check out Hackmaster Basic (5e). Kenzer & Company HackMaster Basic
I ran the system for several sessions and the knockback rules really work in the context of their combat rules.

 

[jmucchiello]

Another thing is that its just flavor. Bull Rush provides the rules for what you want done, but you can discribe it as a 1-inch punch that knocks the guy 10 feet away. Trip provides how to knock somebody prone, but you can describe it as a hip throw.

This. Bull Rush is the mechanic you want. OTOH, you could use Trip in the same manner just describing it as following a roundhouse strike.