Why was paladin turning weakened?

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm curious if this has already been discussed, or if anyone has any idea what the designers thoughts were on this. In 3.0 a paladin turned undead as a cleric of equal level -2. In 3.5, a paladin turns undead as a cleric of equal level -3.

Was it nothing more than the desire to spread out the paladin's specials over more levels (and prevent cherry picking) by moving Turn Undead to fourth level? Or was paladin turning somehow considered too strong at cleric-2?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Perhaps it was to stop them qualifying for divine might and the other turning based feats until 6th level... before they got turning abilities at 3rd level and could choose a feat at that time.

Cheers

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Perhaps it was to stop them qualifying for divine might and the other turning based feats until 6th level... before they got turning abilities at 3rd level and could choose a feat at that time.

Cheers

Interesting. I'd hope that if that were the case, they'd have just put a BAB +6 requirement on Divine Might, rather than weaken the paladin's turning power beyond what it already was. Though there's certainly no derth of examples of the designers being heavy-handed.

Also, if that were the case, it'd mean they thought a paladin needed weakening, but a cleric was just fine qualifying for Divine Might, et. al. at 1st-level, which strikes me as wrong balance-wise since I've always viewed the cleric as being the more overbearing of the two classes.

 

[Darklone]

I'm with PS here. Typical for 3.5, something seemed to be too strong, so they fixed it... fixed the prerequisites... fixed everything that belonged or contributed to it... till it was overfixed.

But since the pooooor cleric is sooooo weak, they didn't fix him.

 

[diaglo]

the 2000ed got rid of evil undead or clerics turning paladins altogether.

i loved it in the old days when the BBEG would turn paladins away.

it was even more beautiful... when they were destroyed.

 

[hong]

it was even more beautiful... when they were destroyed.

It's just creeping me out to imagine your avatar saying that, mang.


Hong "beware... the dread smiley of DQQM!" Ooi

 

[diaglo]

It's just creeping me out to imagine your avatar saying that, mang.


Hong "beware... the dread smiley of DQQM!" Ooi

i'm gearing up to run an OD&D(1974) session this weekend. my first in... i forget how many years... but at least 14 if not 15.

all that OD&D goodness is seeping back into my brain

 

[hong]

i'm gearing up to run an OD&D(1974) session this weekend. my first in... i forget how many years... but at least 14 if not 15.

all that OD&D goodness is seeping back into my brain

Woo-hoo! Go for it!

 

[robberbaron]

'cos they are expected to smite the vile undead, not talk to them!

 

[Henry]

Diaglo, be sure to let us know how it goes! Especially if you get any return of that "old time feeling."

Lord Pendragon, if they put a +6 BAB requirement on the feat, then clerics wouldn't be able to get it until 8th level, or to be more specific, 9th level, when their next feat was due.