Why we love D&D but hate d20

[dead]

Dungeons & Dragons was designed for one thing: medieval swords and sorcery.

It was never the “perfect” system. Back in it’s heyday it was full of mistakes but, in its crusty imperfection, it was released in the right place at the right time to become a classic.

Now we have a new edition which is much cleaner (but still favours power gaming -- levels, experience points, combat focus, etc.) and the Open Game License (OGL). The OGL has spawned many strange RPGs using the D&D system. We have:

D&D Stargate
D&D Buffy
D&D Traveller
D&D Cthulhu
D&D Deadlands
D&D Conan

. . . and the list goes on.

All these RPGs deserve their OWN system because, like it or not, a system is never “invisible” -- it colours the campaign world itself. The above examples either need a system especially tailored for the world they present or, they once DID have a system of their own but have since prostituted themselves to use the D&D system.

D&D is big swords and big spells, it is hit points being sloughed off in waves by fire, acid and lightning. It is not a system that lends itself well to science fiction, nor is it a generic system -- only worlds built on the system can truly benefit (ie. Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Unearthed Arcana). A system is like its bones and will shape what the body looks/feels like. If the body happened to come first (eg. Cthulhu, Conan etc.), you can't shove D&D bones into it because they'll never "perfectly" fit. The best you can do is create a unique system especially tailored to the body.

Just some food for thought.

P.S. Please note that I have not mentioned “d20” at all! “d20” is a sly form of branding that disguises its true origins and creates the myth that the D&D system is generic. I used to know people who scorned AD&D; now I see them happily playing d20. Do they know they're playing AD&D 3rd Edition?

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

I definitly agree with you on that. In just about every game that I've played that has used d20 that wasn't D&D(which has mainly been Star Wars) it just hasn't felt right to me. Perhaps a leveless version of d20 would be able to suit other genres, but if its level based it can only be D&D to me.

You must be a mind reader...I just said something about this in the d20 or bust thread.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'm exactly the opposite. I started d20 with Star Wars, even though I played D&D 2e, I didn't get into 3e until after I played SWd20. The systems both feel very much different for me. I also play Modern, Stargate, Call of Cthulhu, and Traveller.

ALL of them feel unique. I guess, for me and my group, the system doesn't determine the feel at all. The system helps US by taking up time with the tedius rules and such, leaving us with the fun job of setting the feel and mood of the setting.

 

[Dragonblade]

Nevermind...

 

[coyote6]

D&D Buffy

Que? The Buffy RPG uses Eden's own Unisystem, which has not much in common with any edition of D&D (beyond what it has in common with all RPG systems).

I'd think you were referring to one of the d20 Modern settings, but all the other "D&D X" games you listed actually have d20 versions in existence.

only worlds built on the system can truly benefit (ie. Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Unearthed Arcana).

Que Two: Electric Boogaloo? Unearthed Arcana is a book of variant rules. It's kind of as far as you can get from being a setting, and still be an RPG book.

I used to know people who scorned AD&D; now I see them happily playing d20. Do they know they're playing AD&D 3rd Edition?

I mostly scorned AD&D, and am happily playing d20. Very many of the things that really bugged me about AD&D are changed in D&D3e. Some AD&D fans have said that 3e is a whole new system pretending to be a new edition of AD&D.

But I'll leave it to Diaglo to explain how OD&D is the only true D&D.

 

[Crothian]

Some d20 games though hit it perfects. Mutants and Masterminds (d20 superheroes) is possible the best superheroes game I've ever played. Star wars d20 is also well done and the changes to the system really fit well.

I think you are mistaken. Some d20 games are better then others, but the correct writers can tweak the system to fit the genre they want. Take a look at Sidewinder for instance. It captures the western feel perfectly, and its a d20 game.

 

[KenM]

I can't wait for D20 GURPS and D20 RIFTS.

 

[Belegbeth]

As coyote06 pointed out, Buffy is NOT a d20 game.

And many of the other systems you mention (Traveller, Cthulhu, etc.) have BOTH a d20 and non-d20 version. If you like non-d20 CoC, the Chaosium is still producing meterial for it!

So, if you have the time and energy, and want a "pure" experience, you can play the non-d20 version of many games. But if you don't, you can use the d20 version to "try something different."

As for Conan, I think using a system similar to D&D makes perfect sense, given that Howard was one of the main inspirations for the D&D game. (Same thing for a game based on Nehwon, or many other "swords and sorcery" settings.)

You might not like d20, but there are plenty of alternatives out there.

 

[Aaron2]

All these RPGs deserve their OWN system because, like it or not, a system is never “invisible” -- it colours the campaign world itself. The above examples either need a system especially tailored for the world they present or, they once DID have a system of their own but have since prostituted themselves to use the D&D system.
<snip>

The best you can do is create a unique system especially tailored to the body.

This assumes that the unique system is better at capturing the source material than a modified d20. That's a pretty big assumption. IME, the biggest thing that gets in the way of a system and a setting is player/DM lack of familiarity. A group fumbling around with unfamiliar rules will be awkward regardless of how closely it supposedly ties with the source material.

I'm curious why you think Conan won't work with d20 as it was one of the early influences on the game.

Aaron (responding to the obvious troll)

 

[dropshadow]

Conan OGL is one of the best systems that I have seen fit a setting anywhere.