Why We Should Work With WotC

[Voadam]

Did they need this... even at their worst they have always been the 800ib gorilla in the room.

No, generally nobody is so on the edge that they need every benefit they have.

After the NuTSR kerfuffle as we;ll as the reputation the OSR has... I can empathize with their thoughts, especially when it comes to impacting their brand. You can't claim it adds to the zeitgeist without acknowledging it can also do damage.

They are leveraging their 800 lb gorrilla status and a tenuous legal argument to work around a license they set up to be irrevocable that provided D&D content and enables an industry that provides fantastic things. They are doing this so they can control the market more and shoot down products at their discretion. This is a big negative for the industry and me as a D&D consumer of both WotC and OGL stuff.

Revoking the OGL does nothing that would stop or address anything NuTSR has done.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy was not damaging WotC. Edgy OGL products that cross lines are not damaging WotC.

I could care less about sympathizing with WotC's thoughts here.

 

[Staffan]

No. As everyone likes to crow, you can't control or license the general IDEA. Only the particular expression can be so protected. So, if Sal invented a very specific form of pizza, never seen before, and the dispute were over that specific pizza, then it would be more analogous.

I used the restaurant space analogy because it makes clear what Sal actually controls, without that ambiguity.

But it's a fairly poor analogy because unless the restaurant is inside a TARDIS, Sal has limited kitchen space. In that analogy, it makes sense that Sal would reclaim that space if he needs it.

But there is no practical limit to the amount of material that can be built from something like the SRD. It is more like a recipe for pizza dough. Some people use the dough recipe as is and just add different toppings. Others experiment with the dough itself.

 

[raniE]

I believe the owner at the time wanted the game to be in a state where it could be perpetually published, regardless of who owned it... so what was the advantage for WotC?

Also I think it's a gross simplification to claim a particular edition failed because it wasn't OGL when there were so many other factors that contributed to that... just saying.

This is an interview with Ryan Dancey from the year 2000, in charge of D&D at the time, outlining the thought process that led to the OGL. Basically, they figured out that it will mean a lot more profits to keep all the third party people in the tent, making stuff for the same rules system, the rules system that WotC sells. Every other product using the OGL will eventually lead to more sales for WotC.

Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition News

web.archive.org

 

[Scars Unseen]

No, generally nobody is so on the edge that they need every benefit they have.

They are leveraging their 800 lb gorrilla status and a tenuous legal argument to work around a license they set up to be irrevocable that provided D&D content and enables an industry that provides fantastic things. They are doing this so they can control the market more and shoot down products at their discretion. This is a big negative for the industry and me as a D&D consumer of both WotC and OGL stuff.

Revoking the OGL does nothing that would stop or address anything NuTSR has done.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy was not damaging WotC. Edgy OGL products that cross lines are not damaging WotC.

I could care less about sympathizing with WotC's thoughts here.

Yup. Ultimately, All of WotC's arguments boil down to them needing to abandon promises made to the community both in legal contract and plainly worded intention because the existence of that promise is inconvenient to their current desires and plans. And that's if you assume they're arguing in good faith. That's the most positive, benefit of the doubt interpretation of their written intent.

I care more about them upholding their promises than their convenience.

 

[Xyxox]

No compromises. OGL 1.0a is FOREVER. This goes to court.

 

[eyeheartawk]

No compromises. OGL 1.0a is FOREVER. This goes to court.

The only way that happens is if somebody uses OGL 1.0a to continue publishing after WOTC de-authorizes and gets sued by WOTC first, as I understand it. So, I get why people aren't lining up to volunteer for that, I wouldn't.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The only way that happens is if somebody uses OGL 1.0a to continue publishing after WOTC de-authorizes and gets sued by WOTC first, as I understand it. So, I get why people aren't lining up to volunteer for that, I wouldn't.

lots of people are volunteering OTHER people to do it it though... some (not even all) are saying they would throw some disposable income to help them... and that enought other people will throw said money to make it not matter.

The problem is no one here that I have seen has said "Let me go mortgage my house, get a 1/4 of a mil and then risk losing it to beat WotC" nor do I except any sane person would or should....

 

[Xyxox]

The only way that happens is if somebody uses OGL 1.0a to continue publishing after WOTC de-authorizes and gets sued by WOTC first, as I understand it. So, I get why people aren't lining up to volunteer for that, I wouldn't.

There could be a class action suit against WotC the moment they deauthorize.

 

[delericho]

How many times can someone attempt something and fail to succeed before we start to believe they want to do that thing and respond accordingly?

Four so far, apparently.

We're officially more forgiving than baseball.

The thing is, I've been a gamer for a really long time, and D&D has been my game of choice for almost all of that time. And while I've gradually become disenchanted with it all in recent years, there's still a lot of love there. I really don't want to have to stop buying D&D products and stop playing the game over this, but the moment WotC formally announce the de-authorization of OGL 1.0a that's what I'll feel I have to do - even if they later change their mind, and even if it does go to court and they lose (which I'm thinking is increasingly unlikely, on both counts).

So I'm really hoping that WotC will come to their senses and walk this back, because I don't want to walk away. Every step so far has taken us closer to that point, but we're not there yet...

 

[eyeheartawk]

There could be a class action suit against WotC the moment they deauthorize.

The way the lawyers on this board have interpreted it, I don't think so. I'd like for them to be wrong on that point, it would be nice, but it is what it is.