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Why WOTC shouldn't have gotten rid of the Dungeon and Dragon magazine

Do you want Dungeon and Dragon magazines to return to print?

  • I agree!!! Give me my D&D buffet each month! Bring back Dungeon and Dragon!!!

    Votes: 203 70.2%
  • I don't agree!!! I like the DI and the weekly release of content!

    Votes: 14 4.8%
  • I am waiting to see what the paid online magazines are like.

    Votes: 33 11.4%
  • I don't really care about either. I just want my PHB, DMG and MM, leave me alone :P

    Votes: 39 13.5%


First Post
I am really hyped about 4e. I think it has a good chance of being the best version of D&D so far. I am even intrigued (though so far uninpressed) by the digital initative. But something came to me about Dragon and Dungeon when I posted this in another thread:

So far, the biggest mistake I think they have made is killing the Dungeon and Dragon. I think there was a better option there for two wonderful staples of our hobby. I miss reading them on the "throne" and I am not impressed with the DI or Gleemax yet. The magazines were more fun to read than the web articles, it was fun to get it in the mail, it was fun to see them in the store, it was fun to have all the articles at once and flip through them instead of being spoon fed a couple of articles at a time. It was fun to sit away from a computer and get ideas from them, whether travelling, hanging in the living room, down time between a meeting or other appointment.

I enjoyed receiving the magazine, seeing the cover art, exploring the magazine and looking for hidden treasure and fun new approaches to one of my favorite games. That adventuring spirit that was found in each magazine is gone. The closest thing I have now is when Pathfinder shows up, but its not the same as Pathfinder is tied to the adventure and their setting to much. I miss the fantasy world buffet of the previous magazines and the new website does not offer that at all.

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I second that. Plus, a restricted area on a corporate homepage is not as likely to attract new players to the game as two shiny and well made magazines waiting in several stores around the world. DDI has virtually no advertising qualities.

I didn't read the Dragon or Dungeon, so it doesn't matter that much too me. For the moment, I prefer the digital solution, since the DDI is still free. I don't know if I will get a subscription once it's no longer free. Possible, but far from guarenteed.


Basic Action Games
Given what I've seen so far in the DI, it is not at all comparable. Where is the crunch? The actual preview material. All I see are veiled reference editorials saying "Trust us, 4e is da' bomb, but we cannot tell you why" and articles about some full time-witch's fourth grade teacher who wants to date her DM...


My big worry is that in a few years we'll look back and see that killing Dragon and Dungeon was the turning point that led to the demise of the game as a whole. It removes the D&D presence from the news-stands, it generated a huge amount of anti-WotC feeling online, and it removed one of the prime venues for new writers to break into the industry.

I have been deeply unimpressed with the launch of the digital equivalents, especially on the Dragon side. In my opinion, WotC really needed to hit a home run with the first issues online. They have failed to do so. (Yes, I know, they are having the inevitable teething troubles. Problem is, they really couldn't afford to.) That represents a big blow against their Digital Initiative, and something they have to sort out really quickly - the online magazines have to get up to the quality of the best issues of Dragon and Dungeon from the Paizo years, and they have to do it at least two issues before they start charging.

The other pillar of the Digital Initiative are the game tools. If these work as advertised, then that will be great. Unfortunately, WotC's record with electronic tools for D&D (whether produced in-house or by a third party under license) is lousy. Based on that, my own experience with software development, and also the roll-out of Dragon and Dungeon online... I have a bad feeling.

In the worst case, this could lead to the Digital Initiative simply falling flat. And, if it is a catastrophic failure, WotC would have to write off the money invested in it. Suddenly, the 'line item' that is D&D to Hasbro goes from a negligible profit to a big loss. All it would take then is for Hasbro to have a bad quarter, to look for things to cut, and D&D is cancelled.

That is very much a worst-case scenario. If the DI is even a moderate success, it will guarantee the future of the game for ten years or more, and a really good Virtual Tabletop coupled with a really large community base could well be the best thing for gaming since, well, ever. Clearly, WotC expect things to play out well for them, and I really do hope they're right. But, I do worry.

As for bringing back the print magazines: never going to happen. When Dragon #360 and Dungeon #151 failed to appear on the news-stands, that was it. There is no going back.


While I'm a harsh critic of the online Dungeon and Dragon magazines (I post as DMaple on WotC forums) I think they could improve and for me at least be a suitable replacement, and if they add in tie-ins with the rest of the DnDInsider aspects they could be better in some ways than the old print magazines.

But saying that, I still think it was a mistake to take them off the newstands, and bad for the hobby as a whole.


First Post
They can keep their online crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against online stuff per se - not at all - but for me, paper remains the real thing.

I like how Paizo handles Pathfinder: Subscribe, and you will not only get 30% off, but you'll get the PDF version thrown in for free. That way I have an electronic version (good for preparations, and as preview until the Print arrives) and the real thing, with perfect binding and all.


First Post
Back in print.

I've got regular players in my game group who play online games regularly and they DO NOT visit rpg message boards or rpg company sites. They did buy the occasional issue of Dragon and Dungeon. No occasional issue, no funds to WOTC. (or whoever is publishing the mags)


Even if the online magazines become as good as the print ones were, I would still prefer had copies. I like the convenience of a paper issue. I know that digital is supposedly the future, and I've heard comic companies claim the same thing. However, my preference is squarely pointed toward printed issues, and it's going to take more than a flash animation or two to change my mind.

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