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Why WOTC shouldn't have gotten rid of the Dungeon and Dragon magazine

Do you want Dungeon and Dragon magazines to return to print?

  • I agree!!! Give me my D&D buffet each month! Bring back Dungeon and Dragon!!!

    Votes: 203 70.2%
  • I don't agree!!! I like the DI and the weekly release of content!

    Votes: 14 4.8%
  • I am waiting to see what the paid online magazines are like.

    Votes: 33 11.4%
  • I don't really care about either. I just want my PHB, DMG and MM, leave me alone :P

    Votes: 39 13.5%

KingCrab said:
I'm sure paizo hasn't moved on that much that they wouldn't be able to start back up again. They know how to make these magazines great, which is what's most important. They may have to work out the pathfinder/dungeon overlap but in this case, I think they could go back.
WotC hired the same freelance authors and artists to write about the same kinds of topics so far.

Face it; it's just the format you don't like. The content is practically identical.

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First Post
No vote for me on this one - my option isn't there.

Paizo is doing too well with their new product lines at this point. Giving the magazines back to them isn't going to happen - even if WotC wanted to, Paizo is having stellar success doing what they're doing. It would be like taking a step backward for them. They are now a viable competitor with WotC (and I mean that somewhat loosely). Wizards would have to create another small publisher to print the mags and IMO the end result would be inferior enough that it wouldn't sell. If anything, I do believe that WotC will eventually "get it right" and produce a good electronic version of these two magazines. It's just happening in fits and starts. With "Hell's Heart" we got a glimmer of hope for the quality they are aspiring to. And some of the article content is decent so far. I think it's just going to take a while to get there. But it's never going to be a replacement for the print versions. They have evolved into something completely new and if viewed that way, I think readers will eventually come to like them. (Of course, we're all going to miss having them in print for a long time to come.)

Edit: After thinking about it, what I've said here pretty much comes down to me saying I'm waiting to see what the paid subscription is like for 4e since that's about the time I would expect WotC to finally get it right or as close as they ever will.
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Meh. I want my print magazines back.

It was good bedside, bogside, and bus reading - DI... not so much. Plus: While the content is good (thanks to NLogue, Mouseferatu, Jacobs et al.), the presentation (esp. of Dragon) is missing something.

And they just begin to explore online opportunities (vote for your adventure). And it's not like they haven't enough time in advance (don't forget, Paizo's contract was extended to cover Savage Tide, giving them even more time) to polish the first magazine. Or perhaps they should've announced digital Dragon and Dungeon later (not for October but for November). Or should've gotten a larger DI team, not that overworked all-encompassing webteam they have.

They've removed paper Dragon & Dungeon and given something back that's "in the works". Not satisfactory. And a preview should be a preview, not a beta test.

Cheers, LT.


First Post
Hobo said:
WotC hired the same freelance authors and artists to write about the same kinds of topics so far.

Face it; it's just the format you don't like. The content is practically identical.
No, but that much is obvious. I'll just grab the low-hanging fruit for Dragon: there's no comics, nor are there the class-based articles. Dungeon, OTOH, has fared better - but it's still missing the City/Journey/Dungeon articles. It's also missing the nice and proper mix of 3 adventures covering low/med/high levels.

Strange why some people would even bother to suggest otherwise... must not have been regular Dungeon/Dragon purchasers.

Edit: And what's supposedly "upcoming" is just that. It's not there.
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Mod Squad
Staff member
KingCrab said:
I'm sure paizo hasn't moved on that much that they wouldn't be able to start back up again.

With enough money and time, anything is possible, yes. But don't underestimate the spin-up costs. I expect that it being a good business decision to restart now would be... highly debatable.


First Post
I thought they recently said they would be bringing that stuff back (comics, articles, etc). I chalk it up to a bumpy start personally. I can't recall where I read it, perhaps it was the editorial in the eDragon?


Knight of Solamnia
delericho said:
My big worry is that in a few years we'll look back and see that killing Dragon and Dungeon was the turning point that led to the demise of the game as a whole.

I don't see the loss of the magazines as the cause of the game's demise so much as I do them being the first casualties in the changing market environment. The 4e announcement will naturally cause a shift/split in the market. While some companies will go the 4e route, others won't. I foresee more companies going with their own in-house systems. I see the rise of other 3rd party systems.

I don't begrudge WotC wanting a huge online presence. That's a great idea. They should evolve with the times and take advantage of new technologies. What they should NOT do, in my opinion, is to step all over tradition and their existing fan base in the process.

While the authors of some of the articles may be the same, it has been tradition that Dragon and Dungeon were in-print magazines. There is a certain magic to receiving them in the mail, going over an entire issue at once, and having a great time. You can't duplicate that feeling with an online format. Maybe there is some anticipation, but you lose that physical connection.

If I was to do this, I'd release the magazines, then offer a PDF version that subscribers get for free (like Pathfinder). Then have a PDF-only subscription level for those on a budget. Add to that exclusive online content with the subscription, and you have a winner.

Some companies believe that recycling brand names will bring in an audience. To a degree, they are right. At the same time, you need to have the heart and soul of what made those brands great to begin with in order for them to truly succeed.

Though I will mourn the loss of Dragon and Dungeon, I do think that there is a silver lining to all of this, which is Pathfinder. Truly, Pathfinder is some of the most imaginative gaming materials out there.


First Post
I think some folks are forgetting about Kobold Quarterly :) While it may not have the official WotC seal, its first two issues were close enough to Dragon from my perspective that I'm looking forward to issue #3. :)


Hobo said:
WotC hired the same freelance authors and artists to write about the same kinds of topics so far.

Face it; it's just the format you don't like. The content is practically identical.

In periodicals, editorial counts for a lot more than writers.


First Post
As I said on another thread, some of the content has been quite fine. The Demonomicon, Realmslore article and the Ecology was all good stuff. There again, given who wrote the first two, it's really not surprising that they were good quality articles. I even enjoyed the COAFTW articles.

My issue is this. Only one feature has used the format, namely the fact it's online. That's the interview with the Beholder. Everything else has just been text thrown up, with some artwork. If I'm reading a large body of text, I'll take it printed. Not only does it reduce eyestrain, but you can take the printed product anywhere.

Nothing has been done so far to take advantage of the new format, which leads me to believe that the change was pointless.

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