Why would a frost giant have a frost weapon?

[Terwox]

Here's another somewhat by the rules answer:
Frost giant spellcasters need to meet the prerequisites for making their weapons, if you follow the rules down to a letter.
Frost giant clerics generally worship gods of Ice and select ice spells, while frost giant sorcerors cast magic from the frostiness of their blood (they're cold subtype.)
Therefore, those weapons are easier to gain access to. Unless you say that having a cold bloodline would give you fire spells, because if you didn't take those you'd be an idiot. That's simply min-maxing, a cold sorceror should, you know, cast some cold spells, not energy substitution sonics all day.

To Jolly specifically:
1) If frost and fire giants warring is news to you, please check the flavor text in the MM. If you change that, yes, they might wield different weapons because they have different enemies, but that's your own campaign world, where things will be different. Agents of Ice and Fire classically fight, and classically wield their own element... calling this silly is perhaps offbase.

2) If the question was rhetorical, and you're simply being misunderstood... well, I think that's being more tenaciously defensive about your argument than being constructive and defending it. Not a slam or anything, just a statement.

3) If cold weapons aren't easier to forge in a cold climate... you're really denying your imagination in favor of "sticking to the rules."

Big nods to Gez and Mouseferatu.

A bit of an extrapolation to the above argument:
Every dwarf should take exotic weapon prof: spiked chain if they wanted to fight their sworn enemies the giants on a more even level, because it would negate the reach factor and add more combat options. But they don't, they use axes and shields. Why? Because they're dwarves!!
Shut down the dwarven forges, cancel the stonecutting operations, it's time to whip out those spiked chains because they're tactically superior!

Yes... I know that's not a direct analogy, but, I think it shows something.

 

[GSHamster]

I see Cold monsters being somewhat common, but not all that much of a threat to Frost Giants in daily life. So they don't really care about them, and use normal weapons when dealing with them (A frost weapon is basically a normal weapon to these creatures).

The enemies that they are really afraid of are the Fire enemies (because of the extra damage). So they enchant their weapons to do extra damage to those creatures, specifically because they fear them more than the normal hazards of their daily life.

It's like carrying around a demonbane sword. In slightly dangerous situations it doesn't help, but in extremely dangerous situations it will save your life.

Frost weapons are much the same to Frost Giants.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

When I started reading your post, I quickly decided to answer you. Then, as I read on and you were getting ruder and ruder and getting further and further away from the point, I decided you just weren't worth it. Finally I ended up presenting your entire post as a quote, just to let people see what a <expletive deleted by Eric's grandma> you are...

It wasn't intended to be rude (well, ok, the last paragraph was, a little - I apologize), it was intended to call attention to the ludicrous argument that PC's and NPC's play by the same rules. NPCs are the DM's tools and agents, and they are created out of whole cloth to support his goals. They no more follow the same rules as PCs as the facades used on movie sets follow good architectural practices.

Ample reasoning has been presented as to why things are the way they are, from a mechanics standpoint, from a game design standpoint, and from a flavor standpoint. I have seen no counter-arguments put forth that contradict this, other than it not being an optimal choice from a metagaming point of view.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

I try to keep my game world a bit more realistic then that. The image of a permanent layer of ice on top of an active volcano just doesn't sit that well with me...

How amusing.

Saying you keep your game world "a bit more realistic" is pretty silly when discussing a patently ridiculous concept like 15 foot tall, 1 and 1/2 ton vikings.

Large fields of eternal ice near active or semi-active volcanic areas are more likely than frosty Norsemen whose limbs don't snap under the strain of their massive weight.

And really, insulting the game's designers because they included something you don't like is really, really uncalled for. As Mouseferatu said:

But to claim that decisions based on flavor are automatically lazy or poor decisions is not only patently false, it's insulting to everyone who's ever worked on this game.

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Wow. This is like, the worst analogy of the thread.

Frost Giants, by virtue of their inhabitat, would surely fight often against creatures comfortable with cold.

True to a certain extent... So flip the analogy to be about evil creatures instead of good ones. I'm sure there's a lot of infighting among evil characters...

Really, my point wasn't so much an "ecosystem" one, it was more a "fundamental nature" one. For a frost giant, I'd expect the notion of "frost vs fire" to be as fundamental as "good vs evil" for that paladin, or what have you.

With regard to the ecosystem issue... For sake of argument, let's say your most common enemy is frost-based (I still don't necessarily think that's the case, but all the same)... Do you want to base your choice of weapon on your most frequent enemy, or the most dangerous one? Do your human characters get their magic weapons to hunt bears, or to fight scary monsters (and super creeps)? To a frost giant, a frost worm is hardly a "monster" -- it's a pest.

Really, if I'm this thing, my essential nature is this thing, everything around me is this thing, and I can make a weapon that embodies the properties of this thing, that will do great harm against the enemies of this thing... That sounds like the weapon I want! Doesn't matter if that thing is "good," "law," "frost," or what have you... It just makes sense.

Oh, and regarding the assertion that all reasons given have so far been flavor ones: I think that the "cold AoE spells won't hurt my allies" is very sound, mechanically. So is the "this will work best against the enemies which are most dangerous to me" suggestion.

In any case, this thread has given me a great idea for a fire-wielding frost giant assassin...

Saying you keep your game world "a bit more realistic" is pretty silly when discussing a patently ridiculous concept like 15 foot tall, 1 and 1/2 ton vikings.

Best point ever.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Quite a bit has been said in regards to design, in particular, whether it is good design or poor design to give a Frost Giant a frost weapon. I'd like to respond to this question purly from a design viewpoint.

Firstly, and arguably most importantly, regular Frost Giants (MM, pg. 122) are NOT given any frost weapons, they are simply supplied with a Huge Greataxe.

Secondly, I have always been under the impression that the possesions of any given creature are suggested possesions and are, by no means, "carved in stone". Therefore, wouldn't it make sense that if, for whatever reason, the Frost Giants in your campaign would not carry such a weapon, you would simply supply them with another equal weapon of your choosing?

Thirdly, the only Frost Giants that are given a frost weapon are the Frost Giant Jarls (+2 Frost Greataxe). From a design point of view, giving a Frost Giant Jarl anything other than a frost weapon would prompt loads of questions. For instance, if you produced a Frost Giant Jarl that weilded a +2 Sonic Greataxe, imagine the feedback you would recieve: "why does the Frost Giant have a Sonic Greataxe? Is there some sort of section of thier culture that I am missing, what is the relavance?"

Fourthly, giving a Frost Giant Jarl a +2 Flaming Greataxe (which would benifit it when used against creatures in its own climate) would produce the same reaction as, say, giving a Fey a Cold Iron Longsword, or a demon a Good Aligned Mace (demons fight primarly with devils, don't they? Wouldn't this make a lot of sense?). Would it seem to you a good idea, from a design standpoint, to equip a demon with a Good Aligned Mace, or would that seem contradictory to the demon's nature?

Finally, check out the section "Frost Giant Characters" (MM, pg. 122). You'll note that Frost Giant clerics' suggested domains are: "chaos, distruction, evil, or war". There is no mention of the Cold Domain. This seems to lend to the idea that Frost Giants are not to be treated soley as cold-based casters. From a design standpoint, this seems to round the Frost Giant out fairly nicely to me.

I would say, with all of these points considered, that the designers of the Frost Giant did an excellent job. Most importantly to your point: don't like that +2 Frost Greataxe? Swap it out with something else. D&D and Wizards of the Coast seem far from "hard and fast" on these rules to me.

Hope this helps,

T from Three Haligonians

 

[Jolly Giant]

Personally, I've seen a lot of good reasons in this thread for why frost giants would use frost weapons. The fact that they're all flavor-based doesn't bother me in the slightest. If that doesn't work for your campaign, by all means, change it. But to claim that decisions based on flavor are automatically lazy or poor decisions is not only patently false, it's insulting to everyone who's ever worked on this game.

Oh, I've nothing against flavor! What I don't like is flavor that I feel is defying logic and common sense.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Wow. Well, aren't you just the cat's pyjamas! You do come across with a holier-than-thou attitude.

Volcanoes can and do exist in cold climates. Nobody, nobody suggested a permanent ice layer covering an active volcano. Gez stated "above", merely impling the climate of the surrounding terrain in which the volcano lies. Volcanos can lie dormant for years, yet the heat underground will still be there. Hot, poisonous gases may escape on occasion, yet they won't enough to change the local climate.

Gez specifically said "ice above, lava caves beneath". Lava, not occasional poison gas. And all I'm saying is that in MY campaign world ice and lava don't mix very well...

 

[Jolly Giant]

How amusing.

Saying you keep your game world "a bit more realistic" is pretty silly when discussing a patently ridiculous concept like 15 foot tall, 1 and 1/2 ton vikings.

Large fields of eternal ice near active or semi-active volcanic areas are more likely than frosty Norsemen whose limbs don't snap under the strain of their massive weight.

And really, insulting the game's designers because they included something you don't like is really, really uncalled for. As Mouseferatu said:

I'm so glad I amuse you!

My campaign world is -obviously- a fantasy world. That does not mean there aren't any laws of physics in that world. Fire makes ice melt. As for what Mouseratu said; I have nothing agaisnt flavor. Love flavor. What I don't like is flavor going against all common sense.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'm so glad I amuse you!

My campaign world is -obviously- a fantasy world. That does not mean there aren't any laws of physics in that world. Fire makes ice melt. As for what Mouseratu said; I have nothing agaisnt flavor. Love flavor. What I don't like is flavor going against all common sense.

Except it DOESN'T go against 'all common sense'. If it did, everyone would be agreeing with you and this thread wouldn't exsit. Obviously, it goes against YOUR version of common sense. For the majority of people that have posted here, it goes against common sense to have a Frost Giant use a flaming weapon. C'mon, are you going to see something weilding what they're WEAK against? That's like a lich wearing his phylactery as a necklace...