Why would a frost giant have a frost weapon?

[Three_Haligonians]

Very well thought out and researched post, Three Haligonians.

BTW, I live in Lower Sackville.

Thanks, Presto2112!

Good to see another Nova Scotian on the boards! Technically two of us live in Dartmouth (the third Haligonian is, in fact, from Halifax) but with this whole HRM business...

Cheers!

T, J and R from Three Haligonians

 

[green slime]

Couldn't agree more! I'm completely stunned by what this thread has turned into. It's amazing how angry people can get if you happen to shake their preconcieved notions.

Don't flatter yourself, the major problem wasn't any attack on "preconceived notions". It was calling people lazy (the designers), blatant untruths (no glaciers on Iceland?!?) , and an inability to realise how claiming that YOUR campaign was more "realistic" than others could actually rile people. You did not happen to shake any preconcieved notions, at all.

 

[reanjr]

Yeah, technically the designers are the ones that lay down that sort of thing. In the same way that the designers say that Frost Giants are big, icy vikings rather than saying Frost Giants are big, purple skinned, democratic samoans with mohawks that play the violin.

I think you just inspired me to create a new race.

But then again, the designers are the same folks that say elves have pointy ears. Maybe you don't like your elves with pointy ears, and hey you're free to have non-pointy eared elves in your game. But alot of folks, the majority I'd venture to say, like their elves with pointy ears (traditional fantasy like), just the same way they like their fire creatures using fire attacks (traditional fantasy like) and their cold creatures using cold stuff (again, traditional fantasy like).

I don't really know of any traditional fantasy that dictates that creatures from frozen lands use frozen weapons. The only thing I can think of is the folk of Icewall in Dragonlance who use axes made of ice.

And those same designers understand that when most of their target consumers want a traditional fantasy game, that they should design a traditional fantasy game. Much in the same way that a country singer knows that the majority of people who buy his records like country music, and that if he releases an R&B album many folks won't buy it because it's not what they want.

You mean like Garth Brooks' dip into alternative rock with "In...The Life of Chris Gaines"? Or possibly Faith No More's lounge album... Good artists do this often.

 

[reanjr]

Except that there is molten rock flowing beneath all our feet, even in Norway. Does this prevent snow and ice from falling on Norway? Or is it just a question of depth, then?

You can have lava flow down one side of a mountain, with the otherside covered in snow/ice? You can have fierce cold winds constantly removing the heated air from an open lava flow? Then you can have ice within a few meters of an open lava flow. Volcanoes can and do exist in icy climates. This being the case, there are situations, present in the real world, where you have ice above and lava below.

That statement does not prevent rock, earth and stone from separating the two.

............................. (I, too, have found the "." button on the keyboard!)

I think what you're missing is the fact that Frost Giants don't live on glaciers and Fire Giants don't live near lava flows. Frost Giants live in climactically cold mountains. And Fire Giants live in climactically warm mountains. We're not talking about little pockets of civilization eking out their existence near a the tip of a volcano. We're talking about an ecological predisposition. And warm mountains just don't exist alongside cold mountains. It is possible that the Frost Giants live high up in the mountains, while the Fire Giants live in the foothills, but even then they would have no reason to have beef with one another, in general. They would likely coexist peacefully as they don't compete for territory. They may even start up trade or military alliances, given that they're neighbors.

 

[reanjr]

Most frost giants carry frost weapons for the same reason that most people take levels of commoner, most orcs take a level of warrior, most ogres wield clubs (instead of swords), many clerics take the healing domain, most dragons like to lie on piles of gold (instead of spending it on defensive measures), etc, etc.

In other words, most creatures are not rational min-maxers; they are constrained by culture, ideology, social expectations, resource and technology limitations, etc. One of the heroic things about PCs is that they manage to rise above the prejudices and be "all you can be."

A world that takes these constraints into account is much more realistic than one where everyone is relentlessly min-maxed.

When it comes to weapons and technology, realistic cultures ALWAYS min/max to the best of their ability. It's how progress is made. If a culture is backwards enough (say, tribes in the Amazon that have lived the same way for hundreds of years) then they rarely get past stone age technology.

 

[Sejs]

Couldn't agree more! I'm completely stunned by what this thread has turned into. It's amazing how angry people can get if you happen to shake their preconcieved notions.

Checking my preconcieved notions, I can't help but notice that they're unshook. Nah, people get upset when they're told they're unimaginative and dogmatic for having a different oppinion than you do. Folks tend to take exception to that for some reason.

I think you just inspired me to create a new race.

Awesome! Name one after me, okay?

I don't really know of any traditional fantasy that dictates that creatures from frozen lands use frozen weapons. The only thing I can think of is the folk of Icewall in Dragonlance who use axes made of ice.

Fair enough. Nah, I wasn't thinking normal people who lived in frozen climates, though it would make sense for their spellcasters to use cold-type magics... commanding the teeth of the storm and such, just because of their frame of reference. I was more thinking along the lines of supernatural creatures with the appropriate type, or what would be in D&D. Azer are fiery dwarves, so they use fiery things. Norse frost and fire giants, Sutur with his flaming sword. Things like that.

You mean like Garth Brooks' dip into alternative rock with "In...The Life of Chris Gaines"? Or possibly Faith No More's lounge album... Good artists do this often.

This is very true, however the people that tend to buy those albums that are an artist's dip into a different genre generally do so because they're a fan of that particular artist rather than being a fan of the original genre and not caring about the artist. So, say a guy who is a fan of country and doesn't really care if it's done by Garth Brooks, or Billy Ray Cyrus, or Tim McGraw wouldn't go out and buy that Garth Brooks alternative rock album because it's not what he wants.

 

[SkidAce]

Just to stir the pot a little...according to Norse mythology the giants lived in the great void...to the north a region of ice (Nifleheim) and to the south a region of fire (Muspellheim). And both Ice and Fire giants hate the Aesir (Odin and crew) and await the day they can "gang up" on them...i.e. Ragnarok..

 

[green slime]

When it comes to weapons and technology, realistic cultures ALWAYS min/max to the best of their ability. It's how progress is made. If a culture is backwards enough (say, tribes in the Amazon that have lived the same way for hundreds of years) then they rarely get past stone age technology.

Nope. If this was the case, every nation today with the capability to do so would have nuclear, biological, and chemical weaponry. Some countries looked at that path and decided "nope, not for us..."

It is also a case of economics, opportunity and scale. I don't actually have to have a better army than a potential agressor, I just need to ensure that it costs more to invade than he is willing to pay.

 

[Mystery Man]

Couldn't agree more! I'm completely stunned by what this thread has turned into. It's amazing how angry people can get if you happen to shake their preconcieved notions.

You're the one who started it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Just to stir the pot a little...according to Norse mythology the giants lived in the great void...to the north a region of ice (Nifleheim) and to the south a region of fire (Muspellheim). And both Ice and Fire giants hate the Aesir (Odin and crew) and await the day they can "gang up" on them...i.e. Ragnarok..

An axe age,
A sword age,
Shields shall be cloven,
A wind age,
A wolf age,
ere the world totters...
Voluspa

The realm an' I recall properly was Jotunheim (which is also a national park in Norway...). Midgard (Middle Earth) was the realm of men, Nifleheim was the first realm, given to Hel, and theree was birthed the frost giant Ymir. (Who was created from ice licked into shape by a cow... where the cow came from I have no idea.) The Giants, like the Titans, were older than the gods.

The Auld Grump, cutting this short before he maunders on for too long about the Nose and the Eddas...