TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

[Sacrosanct]

Weren't there some sort of magical fruits in the Desert of Desolation series? Maybe in the Lost Tomb of Martek.

I'm sure there were a couple more I couldn't remember off the top of my head (I said as much), but to have it all work out? Finding them, having the right stats being increased, etc? Not probable.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm sure there were a couple more I couldn't remember off the top of my head (I said as much), but to have it all work out? Finding them, having the right stats being increased, etc? Not probable.

There were magic items that raised abilities when they were used, or permanently (such as manuals, etc.).

Wishes, etc., could be used to gain 1 point each up to 16, and then .1.

And so on.

 

[Remathilis]

I started with 2e, long after 1e was OOP. I got a lot of my 1e stuff later via bookstore hunting and eBay. To this day I would not play 1e over 2e. I have zero nostalgia for it, and every comparison I can make between the two, 2e either is superior or is a supplement away from fixing. Miss half-orc? Humanoid's Handbook. Need monks and assassins? Scarlet Brotherhood. Demons and Devil stats? Planescape. The only thing 1e had going for it was a bunch of classic modules which I've run using 2e and minimal conversion.

I think there is a difference between rules and aesthetics. 2e has superior rules, but 1e has the superior aesthetics, especially since 2e's aesthetics are the prototype to modern gaming OS fans openly reject. The railroad modules, the metaplots and multiverse, etc. Since most clones end up cleaning up 1e (or basic) anyway, the edge 2e has (clean up rules) goes away and 1e wins on vibes. Which is why there are no 2e clones: everyone is building 2e again while trying to keep 1e's aesthetics.

 

[David Howery]

1E was most of my gaming experience, as my job/life forced me out of the hobby not long after 2E came out. That said... 1E was a bit of a grind in trying to figure out what some of the rules meant and deciding which official rules to keep and which optional rules to keep. A lot of groups I hung around ignored level limits and the like. I have a lot of nostalgia about the fun and wonder of playing 1E back in the days, but not so much about the patchy rules...

 

[Sacrosanct]

I started with 2e, long after 1e was OOP. I got a lot of my 1e stuff later via bookstore hunting and eBay. To this day I would not play 1e over 2e. I have zero nostalgia for it, and every comparison I can make between the two, 2e either is superior or is a supplement away from fixing. Miss half-orc? Humanoid's Handbook. Need monks and assassins? Scarlet Brotherhood. Demons and Devil stats? Planescape. The only thing 1e had going for it was a bunch of classic modules which I've run using 2e and minimal conversion.

I think there is a difference between rules and aesthetics. 2e has superior rules, but 1e has the superior aesthetics, especially since 2e's aesthetics are the prototype to modern gaming OS fans openly reject. The railroad modules, the metaplots and multiverse, etc. Since most clones end up cleaning up 1e (or basic) anyway, the edge 2e has (clean up rules) goes away and 1e wins on vibes. Which is why there are no 2e clones: everyone is building 2e again while trying to keep 1e's aesthetics.

Yep. See my comment above about why I never did a 2e clone. Because basically, that's what all the 1e clones are, just with 1e aesthetic. The thing that makes me wonder, and what prompted this entire thread, is my current DM of the 1e game I'm in is younger, and obviously wasn't playing back then. So why they chose 1e over 2e (and 1e RAW) was kinda weird to me. Like, "why are you punishing yourself playing 1e RAW?" lol. And they aren't alone. I only know one person DMing a 2e game, and I know a whole bunch DMing 1e, even if they didn't have that nostalgia.

 

[billd91]

2. Does the world really need or want another clone?

"But my clone is different."

 

[Voadam]

Magic fountains were in the DMG. It didn't say what the fountain would do, but the tricks appendix did include a secret door to them.

In my experience, most DMs I played with had magical fountains in the adventures they created that did various things, including some that raised and/or lowered stats.

There were magic pools detailed in the DMG (Table VIII C. Magic Pools, page 172) that could raise or lower stats.

TABLE VIII. C.: MAGIC POOLS* (d20)
Die Result
1-8 Turns gold to platinum (1-11) or lead (12-20), one time only.
9-15 Will, on a one-time only basis, add (1-3) or subtract (4-6) from one characteristic of all who stand within it:
1 = strength 4 = dexterity
2 = intelligence 5 = constitution
3 = wisdom 6 = charisma
(add or subtract from 1-3 points, checking for each character as to addition or subtraction, characteristic, and amount).
16-17 Talking pool which will grant 1 wish to characters of its alignment and damage others from 1-20 points. Wish can be withheld for up to 1 day. Pool’s alignment is: lawful good 1-6, lawful evil 7-9, chaotic good 10-12, chaotic evil 13-17, neutral 18-20.
18-20 Transporter pool: 1-7, back to surface; 8-12, elsewhere on level; 13-16, 1 level down; 17-20, 100 miles away for outdoor adventure.
* In order to find out what they are, characters must enter the magic pools.

As a DM I used one in my long term 1e campaign. As players tried it out and rolled the dice I instructed and got stat boosts one player was figuring out the mechanics as it happened and figured out that one die was for stats, one die was for how much and that it was a 1-3 random adjustment to a stat. So when his 18 percentile strength ranger went up to the pool and figured out his rolls were for strength and for +3 he was super excited about going to giant strength like the wild elf assassin had, he just could not figure out what the last die was for, then found out that the three previous players had all rolled an increase whereas his came out a decrease and he went down to a 15 strength.

50/50 shot at increase or decrease is a way for someone in a group to get great stats if they all jump in, but it is a huge risk for any individual character and knowing it is 50/50 good or bad can lead a lot to not try their luck.

 

[Voadam]

Hyperborea, really? That's incredible to me. Right up front that one makes substantial changes to races and classes to better suit its own setting and to fix/replace multiclassing (respectively), which is the furthest thing from trying to be purist about Gary's vision or the mechanics coming second, if at all.

My understanding of Hyperborea is that it originally billed itself as 1e but with classes, races, monsters, and magic specifically redone for a Conan background world.

The one that surprises me in that list is Castles and Crusades. C&C is very much an OSR style 3e era d20 hack simplifying a lot of d20. I guess Erde as a setting is going for a sort of Gygaxian Greyhawk type of feel, but C&C as a system I don't really see it as emulating Gygax's 1e. Maybe more allowing free form ad hoc crazy stuff with their siege engine mechanics to match Gygax's seat of the pants dungeon mastering actual playing style.

 

[Mannahnin]

My understanding of Hyperborea is that it originally billed itself as 1e but with classes, races, monsters, and magic specifically redone for a Conan background world.

Pretty close. It's a bit weirder than Conan, what with the flat world and all. But definitely emphasizing Howard, Lovecraft, Leiber and Moorcock in the worldbuilding, and pretty much eliminating Tolkien. Which is in its own way in keeping with Gary's preferences.

The one that surprises me in that list is Castles and Crusades. C&C is very much an OSR style 3e era d20 hack simplifying a lot of d20. I guess Erde as a setting is going for a sort of Gygaxian Greyhawk type of feel, but C&C as a system I don't really see it as emulating Gygax's 1e. Maybe more allowing free form ad hoc crazy stuff with their siege engine mechanics to match Gygax's seat of the pants dungeon mastering actual playing style.

Yes, totally agree on Castles & Crusades as well. I was giving it points for "Gygax Essentialism" I think because Gary endorsed it, he wrote for Troll Lord for years before he passed, and Castle Zagyg was published for it.

 

[Mannahnin]

I'm sure there were a couple more I couldn't remember off the top of my head (I said as much), but to have it all work out? Finding them, having the right stats being increased, etc? Not probable.

I think this is highly variable from table to table. Given the DMG example of such a pool, and the one from B1, it's highly likely that a fair number of people's campaigns featured at least semi-regular instances of weird magic which could raise ability scores.

OTOH you'd also have DMs like adolescent me, who never played B1 and was balancing that pool example in the DMG against Gary's insanely stingy restrictions on Wishes increasing ability scores, and concluding that I should make such magic rare.