D&D General Why wouldn't you run a Dark Sun game?

[earthsea_wizard]

I'm on a setting kick and there seems to be serious talk of Dark Sun being revived for 5e.

Whenever Dark Sun comes up it gets a lot of praise. It's one of those settings where even people who have never run or played it so that they wish they had or could.

The setting also of course falls under the spotlight for many of its thematic issues.

I'm curious about people who never liked it as a setting to run their games in and why? Complaints about morality etc. are valid (though explored in great depth in many a thread), but I am also (if not more-so) curious about the mechanical/philisophical bent of the setting that makes you find it not suitable for a long running campaign. Something as simple as "I would grow extremely tired of the geography" works, or I know some people complain about a lot of the inconsistencies of the setting that show up pretty quickly (population size vs how many people are sacrificed to the dragon etc).

So for all of the love that Dark Sun gets, why did it never appeal to you?

 

[Shiroiken]

I think it's a fine setting, it's just not my cup of tea. I've played in a couple of Dark Sun campaigns and had a lot of fun. As a DM, however, there's too many issue for me.

While I'm okay with wilderness survival as a theme, I don't feel that D&D does such a great job of it due to magic. Either you have to heavily nerf several spells and abilities, or this aspect becomes trivial. Like using Passive Perception as a minimum, the outcome is determined when the characters are chosen for the adventure. Ranger? No problem. Cleric with Create Food and Water? Great. Druid with Goodberry? Awesome!

I'm not huge on psionics, and this is a pretty key aspect of the setting. Since arcane magic is tainted, psionics are intended to take the place of the standard mage in a party. However, they work so differently that they seldom fill the same role, meaning you often still need a mage anyway.

 

[God]

While I'm okay with wilderness survival as a theme, I don't feel that D&D does such a great job of it due to magic. Either you have to heavily nerf several spells and abilities, or this aspect becomes trivial. Like using Passive Perception as a minimum, the outcome is determined when the characters are chosen for the adventure. Ranger? No problem. Cleric with Create Food and Water? Great. Druid with Goodberry? Awesome!

This is a 5E problem, not a Dark Sun problem -- but definitely a good reason not to play Dark Sun with that ruleset, which trivializes too many things that would otherwise make for interesting gameplay. I've had great success running Dark Sun with everything from 2E to 3X/Pathfinder 1E to Savage Worlds to various OSR games like Worlds Without Number, generally with very minor tweaks. Just about anything but 5E works.

As for psionics, they're not supposed to take the place of mages. In games I've run, dedicated psionicists more often replace a traditional cleric (since DS elemental clerics aren't the typical buff+healbot) although the broad range of possible specialties means they can be built for a wide variety of roles. In play, psionics are most valuable as an additional threat vector -- not only do you have to worry about super-sized, mutated fauna, or mages that ruin your crops at the same time they fireball your village, you also have to account for silent, floating vampire snakes that mentally enslave your teammates and flowers that psionically magnify the sun's rays into lasers when you get too close. For players, wild talents are a random ability that adds to the power fantasy but may or may not be all that useful. For the GM, it's another way to make the world dangerous and horrific.

 

[DragonLancer]

For me, it's a bit of an odd one. I love the setting but it's the mechanics over time. I played a lot of Dark Sun under 2nd edition (under two different DM's) and ran a couple campaigns myself. When we came to try it under 3.X and Pathfinder, the nature of the system meant that it didn't feel the same. I find that unless you run it under 2nd edition, that the setting doesn't feel the same during play.

Probably not the answer you are looking for, but my thoughts on it.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

For me, it's a bit of an odd one. I love the setting but it's the mechanics over time. I played a lot of Dark Sun under 2nd edition (under two different DM's) and ran a couple campaigns myself. When we came to try it under 3.X and Pathfinder, the nature of the system meant that it didn't feel the same. I find that unless you run it under 2nd edition, that the setting doesn't feel the same during play.

Probably not the answer you are looking for, but my thoughts on it.

As good an answer as any!

 

[Autumnal]

I’m big on psionics and settings after apocalypse, but not wild about heat and deserts. Give me a vast dangerous forest, or archipelago, or glacial mountains, or underwater, and I’d be more likely to go for it.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I’m big on psionics and settings after apocalypse, but not wild about heat and deserts. Give me a vast dangerous forest, or archipelago, or glacial mountains, or underwater, and I’d be more likely to go for it.

Totally. I've often wondered why there was never a setting with similar vibes but not in a desert. Scarred Lands for 3e is the closest I can think of. Were you a fan of that? And/or Eberron?

 

[Autumnal]

I’m a fan of both.

 

[Zardnaar]

I love Darksun but there's a few issues trying to play it now.

1. Old books. Hard to get or easily danaged.

2. Most new players/recruits have not played AD&D. If they have its often been 25+ years.

3. You need the AD&D core books. Then the DM and Players DS book. Then psionics. That's a lot to digest for non veterans.

And if you like the 4E version good luck finding players let alone a DM.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I love Darksun but there's a few issues trying to play it now.

1. Old books. Hard to get or easily danaged.

2. Most new players/recruits have not played AD&D. If they have its often been 25+ years.

3. You need the AD&D core books. Then the DM and Players DS book. Then psionics. That's a lot to digest for non veterans.

And if you like the 4E version good luck finding players let alone a DM.

Fair! It is fully supported for 3.5 as well though, moreso than 4e. Definitely still 3.5e and PF players out there (my group never moved on from 3.5).