Why you MAY switch

[Gundark]

There is a gaming group in my community that I’m aware of that never made the jump to 3rd edition. They were quite happy with 2nd edition and never bothered. Will they go to 4th edition? Who knows? There are a certain number of gamers here on enworld and other gaming sites that have made the claim that they will never switch to 4e. For some (or maybe a lot?) this is true, they will never make the switch.

Others though will eventually switch for various reasons, which I will post here. Now I’m not trying to start a fight and I’m not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. I don’t know anyone here on Enworld in the real world; please understand that there is no maliciousness intended on my part. This is merely a “why you might change discussion”, not a "you WILL change discussion". Consider it a public service announcement.

I’ve been playing games and been around enough gamers though to understand when it comes to games the phrase “never say never” is a truism. Back in 2003 my gaming group was playing 3.0 and we heard the announcement of 3.5. And that there would be 3 new core books released and that all WotC books released after the fact would not be compatible with older material. Well the emotions in my group ranged from annoyance to downright anger. People in my group were throwing around things like “this is just a money grab” to “I bought all these 3.0 books and now they are useless?” to “I don’t want to learn new rules!!” to “they changed rule/class/feat/weapon X this absolutely sucks!!”. Basically the whole spectrum of hate.

Well slowly the group began to change.

The “Let’s take 3.5 stuff and put them into our 3.0 game guy”- The one pro-3.5 guy bought the books and had them at the table to look at. Slowly what started to happen was… “well this rules not so bad, and maybe we should use this rule for our 3.0 games”, then another rule…then another. Well after awhile it got to the point that we house-ruled 3.0 until we were like “we might as well play 3.5”.

The “I bought all these books and now they’re useless??!?! guy”. This guy was a buyer, he liked buy books. I think he tried to stop but he is a gamer . So then WotC released cool book 3.5 X with cool option Y and we had group members going “well I want to use cool book X that’s 3.5 and I don’t feel like converting it back to 3.0” so eventually he switched…and kept buying books.

The “Well I hate the changes! Guy”. This one was admittedly a slower conversion. After awhile it became “I’m still upset by rule A, but I understand why rule B, C &D where changed”. Eventually she lived with it. And enjoyed the game. She too fell victim to the "that class/race/whatever for 3.5 looks cool. I wanna play that"

There are always people who will never go one to the new thing. I think they are on the one end of the spectrum, on the other end you have the people who’ll jump ship without much thought. Then in the middle there is everyone else. They may not adopt the new rules early on, but eventually they will. I suspect there will be a lot who are saying no now, but will be playing someday (The reverse may be true too). People I think tend to like new things, and if the new thing is good...well all the better. There are games which I didn't think I'd like when looking through the rules (warhammer fantasy rpg), then after playing really enjoyed.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

As I mentioned on the other two recent threads related to this topic, if the Pros outweigh the Cons AND I'm not still running SWSE games, I will most like switch. The Pros currently outweigh the Cons, but I am running SWSE, so at the moment I am most likely a no-go for 4e.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I think there are a lot of people who are turned off by 4e because their favorite races/classes/archetypes aren't available in the core books. Others are playing games tied to specific 3e settings (and may be more or less fearful of the 4e "updates" of those worlds).

Most of those people will probably switch over the next couple years, I'd think, as more "cool stuff" comes out. Heck, the guys who don't want to leave behind their gnome bards might be back in the game as soon as the arcane splatbook hits.

The people who have deeper reservations about the changes they're seeing in 4e will either be converted after experiencing the new rules... or not. If most of the changes end up being like the 3e Initiative change (which 2e players thought would Ruin the Game, but ended up being inconsequential), we'll probably see a lot of converts. If the changes are closer to what people are fearing, and they change the "feel" of the game in Bad Ways, there might be non-converts for the forseeable future.

 

[Dragonbait]

I'm not too sure if you had a question, FickleGM, so I guess I'll add the attitude of my two groups: Both groups plan on switching. I have a lot to do with it, since I am the primary D&D-er in both groups. Neither have a particular loyalty to an edition. They both like the new rules that have been hinted at or shown on the D&D site. Also, since only one other player in the two groups owns more than 5 D&D books (cheap bastards! ) they didn't go through the "I spent all this money on something that will be ending soon?!" turmoil I went through when I heard about 4E.

Overall, both groups like the changes to the rules. It's not perfect (they like multiple attacks, but that's because they are almost always players rather than GMs) but it's about 95% approval.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

I'm not too sure if you had a question, FickleGM, so I guess I'll add the attitude of my two groups: Both groups plan on switching. I have a lot to do with it, since I am the primary D&D-er in both groups. Neither have a particular loyalty to an edition. They both like the new rules that have been hinted at or shown on the D&D site. Also, since only one other player in the two groups owns more than 5 D&D books (cheap bastards! ) they didn't go through the "I spent all this money on something that will be ending soon?!" turmoil I went through when I heard about 4E.

Overall, both groups like the changes to the rules. It's not perfect (they like multiple attacks, but that's because they are almost always players rather than GMs) but it's about 95% approval.

Nope, no question from me. It all comes down to Pros vs. Cons vs. SWSE (or whatever I'm playing in June). My groups' opinions only matter insofar as they are welcome to play in the game I want to run or not play (i.e. I choose the system, not them).

 

[smootrk]

I plan to acquire the PHB only to facilitate finding a game when no alternatives are available. That being said, if what I see really knocks my socks off, then I may pick up the occasional other supplement...

... but by no means will I be spending like I did for 3.x. Just not going down that road again anytime in the foreseeable future. WotC's own actions have stifled my spending habits which would have otherwise been continuing at approximately the same rate.

 

[Dragonbait]

Nope, no question from me. It all comes down to Pros vs. Cons vs. SWSE (or whatever I'm playing in June). My groups' opinions only matter insofar as they are welcome to play in the game I want to run or not play (i.e. I choose the system, not them).

I boo-boo'ed, FickleGM. When I hit reply, I didn't know there already were several responses. I addressed the first name I saw, thinking it was the original poster.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

I boo-boo'ed, FickleGM. When I hit reply, I didn't know there already were several responses. I addressed the first name I saw, thinking it was the original poster.

I had a feeling that might be the case. No worries.

 

[nutluck]

For me it is still up in the air. Though so far I am mostly in the not going to convert camp. Mostly cause the majority of things I have read i don't like and I don't like the over all direction all the varies bits seem to suggest the game is heading.

So baring the books being very different than they seem like they will be it would take the DI to blow me away. I would buy and play 4e even if I didn't care to much for it if the DI is good enough. Since i play online chat games now(not dnd but other games), this would be a easier way to play such games. Sadly the 10 a month for me is a bit steep cause i could careless about dungeon and dragon mags pdf or otherwise. So if they offer a plan for less with out the mags I would be more interested. But still depends on to many things I just don't have answer for yet to say one way or the other for positive.

 

[Mephistopheles]

If the rules are to the liking of myself and the others I play with then I may switch.

To be honest, though, I felt 3E went about as far as it could go while still calling itself D&D. 4E really seems like an altogether new game that is calling itself D&D 4E. It may end up being a great game but it seems like they are changing so many things that have nothing to do with improving the ruleset that I'm not sure it will feel at all the same.

Those impressions have led me to feel that it's as good a time as any to consider moving to another game system. If I'm going to have to learn new and apparently significantly different rules along with a fairly significant shuffle in races, classes, monsters, et cetera, then 4E is really going to have to distinguish itself on its own merits rather than having the momentum of familiarity.

At the moment I'm keeping an open mind about 4E but I'm making no plans to switch before getting a look at the final product.