D&D 5E Why you shouldn't allow optional rules.

[Mouseferatu]

I had 3-4 got to tricks I could pull out all the time, I could inspire people to push on with a few simple words, and I could help set bones and heal minor wounds in-between fights, when I went all out though I could pull huge tricks on opponents like pre set actions to quadrate actions... this was all of course atwill/encounter/daily based.

in 5e I can do almost none of this...martial healing is non exsitant, martial temp hp are very hard to come by giving extra attacks or bonuses are hard, there in nothing like my character...

Battle master maneuvers do almost all of this.

Commander's Strike: Grant an ally an attack as a reaction.

Distracting Strike: Grant an ally advantage on an attack.

Maneuvering Attack: Let an ally move as a reaction without drawing opportunity attacks from the target.

Rally: Grant temporary HP to an ally as a bonus action.

Healer feat: Non-magically heal an ally for 1d6 + 4 + HD damage.

Inspiring Leader feat: Grant six members of the party temporary HD equal to your level + Cha modifier, repeatable every short rest. (And trust me, having seen this in action, this is a Big Deal.)

I agree it's not exactly the same as a 4E warlord, but it seems to me that it's pretty darn close.

 

[Mephista]

Battle master maneuvers do almost all of this.

....

I agree it's not exactly the same as a 4E warlord, but it seems to me that it's pretty darn close.

I agree. The problem mainly seems to come down to the low amounts of superiority dice, which is fixable with using the 4e 5 minute short rest option in the DMG. Frankly, you can't pull off ANYTHING 4e style without that little hack to the game - so, chin up, and have the battlemaster go sit by the warlock, monk, and bard with their short rest woes, along with the Cha-only paladin and a few others.

At level 3, you get four superiority dice, which is enough to let you do at least one Warlord style attack option per round (four rounds is generally the upper limit, in my experience). It only goes up with more dice as you level. And if they refresh per encounter, ala 4e, its enough to pull off the same style of play. If your GM is using the hour-rest, or something harsher, then you're going to have to throw out any 4e style stuff

The truth of 4e is that its encounter based. While most classes have short-rest features, many can easily go without them long term. Without that encounter based refreshes, you simply can't pull off any 4e style builds, imho. If you really want them, then talk to your GM. They have the power to allow that kind of style into the game.

 

[ExploderWizard]

maybe I'm not making myself clear... I want a fighter who has options that are not spells or spell like, but are martial based...

example: in 4e I had a played a warlord based on a loose basic of Captain Sheridan from Babylon 5 (he was most well known for taking a barely adequate defense and turning it into a kick butt offense) I had 3-4 got to tricks I could pull out all the time, I could inspire people to push on with a few simple words, and I could help set bones and heal minor wounds in-between fights, when I went all out though I could pull huge tricks on opponents like pre set actions to quadrate actions... this was all of course atwill/encounter/daily based.

in 5e I can do almost none of this...martial healing is non exsitant, martial temp hp are very hard to come by giving extra attacks or bonuses are hard, there in nothing like my character...

we also had a rogue who could blind people, do AOE attacks with knives and sherikens, and slow or daze opponints...

Martial healing is just magic using a different UPC code. The battlemaster fighter has actual martial maneuvers that are not magic.

If you get effects that the equal of magic then they are magic. It could be spells, gifts granted by a deity, technological advancement, or whatever. The end result is still the functional equivalent of magic.

4E was the supers genre pure and simple. The trappings were traditional fantasy but it was all Avengers/ Justice League under the hood. You are correct that 5E does not fully support that play style.

 

[Ketser]

maybe I'm not making myself clear... I want a fighter who has options that are not spells or spell like, but are martial based...

example: in 4e I had a played a warlord based on a loose basic of Captain Sheridan from Babylon 5 (he was most well known for taking a barely adequate defense and turning it into a kick butt offense) I had 3-4 got to tricks I could pull out all the time, I could inspire people to push on with a few simple words, and I could help set bones and heal minor wounds in-between fights, when I went all out though I could pull huge tricks on opponents like pre set actions to quadrate actions... this was all of course atwill/encounter/daily based.

in 5e I can do almost none of this...martial healing is non exsitant, martial temp hp are very hard to come by giving extra attacks or bonuses are hard, there in nothing like my character...

we also had a rogue who could blind people, do AOE attacks with knives and sherikens, and slow or daze opponints...

In addition to all probable options granted by the battlemaster, you could also reflavor/alter eldritch knight or arcane trickster. Alter the casting a bit, give them spells that can be made into martial maneuvers and voila. Needs some work, but not has much as it seems.

 

[Mephista]

Martial healing is just magic using a different UPC code. The battlemaster fighter has actual martial maneuvers that are not magic.

If you get effects that the equal of magic then they are magic. It could be spells, gifts granted by a deity, technological advancement, or whatever. The end result is still the functional equivalent of magic.

4E was the supers genre pure and simple. The trappings were traditional fantasy but it was all Avengers/ Justice League under the hood. You are correct that 5E does not fully support that play style.

I would not say that. Now, I'm not going to call it a superhero genre, since there's more to the superhero genre than being, ah, how did 4e put it? High heroic? But there is some truth to the statement.

Anyways, I want to point out that 5e does have options to allow that style of play in the DMG. However, they require the DM actually using those options to turn them on. And rightfully so, as the DM is the one who sets the tone of the game.

Well, maybe not rogue AoEs, but that's an artifact of the one-hit-one-kill mentality the class is built on. Shadow Monks, on the other hand, can readily pull off ninja-star multi-attack stuff. But then, much like the warlock, the monk is a class that really shines when you turn on 4e style options.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Martial healing is just magic using a different UPC code. The battlemaster fighter has actual martial maneuvers that are not magic.

If you get effects that the equal of magic then they are magic. It could be spells, gifts granted by a deity, technological advancement, or whatever. The end result is still the functional equivalent of magic.

4E was the supers genre pure and simple. The trappings were traditional fantasy but it was all Avengers/ Justice League under the hood. You are correct that 5E does not fully support that play style.

I assume you didn't like 4e... at the very least you don't seem to understand the mythic fantasy feel it was going for. More Hercules and odysseys then JLA...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Battle master maneuvers do almost all of this.

Commander's Strike: Grant an ally an attack as a reaction.

Distracting Strike: Grant an ally advantage on an attack.

Maneuvering Attack: Let an ally move as a reaction without drawing opportunity attacks from the target.

Rally: Grant temporary HP to an ally as a bonus action.

Healer feat: Non-magically heal an ally for 1d6 + 4 + HD damage.

Inspiring Leader feat: Grant six members of the party temporary HD equal to your level + Cha modifier, repeatable every short rest. (And trust me, having seen this in action, this is a Big Deal.)

I agree it's not exactly the same as a 4E warlord, but it seems to me that it's pretty darn close.

yea like I said before I haven't seen a long running campaign, so maybe it will work out, but right now I am nervous after seeing some one shots and small runs...

 

[ExploderWizard]

I assume you didn't like 4e... at the very least you don't seem to understand the mythic fantasy feel it was going for. More Hercules and odysseys then JLA...

It was good at being fantasy supers. That just wasn't what I was looking for from D&D.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It was good at being fantasy supers. That just wasn't what I was looking for from D&D.

yes... because you didn't like it that colors your ability to help people who did... I mean the fact that I liked parts of 4e, and consider it the best D&D pre 5e so I want to see 5e improve on 4e (it was far from perfect).

 

[Sacrosanct]

Shadow Monks, on the other hand, can readily pull off ninja-star multi-attack stuff. .

How? In 5e, you only ever get one bonus action. So at most, a monk can get 2 normal attacks (with ninja stars for example), but the other two bonus flurry attacks have to be unarmed. A dual wielding or polearm prof fighter will have more attacks than that.