Wilder...I don't get it

[Coredump]

Okay, same pp as psion, but *way* fewer powers. Sure, you can risk getting dazed to cast them a bit higher. And there is a decent chance that uprading the manifester level doesn't do much for the power.

Heck, at 7th level, you only have *4* powers. Talk about feeling like a one trick pony. What is the draw?

 

[The Souljourner]

Dude, wild surge is awesome. While I agree, they seem to have gone way overboard on reducing the number of powers, I think wild surge might be worth it.

It's not just increasing the manifester level, it counts as augmenting the power by that amount as well. At 12th level you can wild surge a 6th level power by 4 levels, which means she could apply Maximize Power to the power without it even costing extra power points. Compare this to a 12th level psion, who won't be able to maximize that power for another 3 levels, and will have to spend 4 extra power points to do it.

You can also use the wild surge to simply augment the power - take psionic disintegrate.... the psion can make it do 24d6 with 12 power points, the wilder can surge and make it do 32d6 with 12 power points!

I agree that the reduced powers suck, but man, they do pretty awesome with the ones they have.

-The Souljourner

 

[Piratecat]

Souljourner, you're right on everything except how psionic disintegrate gets augmented.

Coredump, I had this problem too because there's no iconic example of a wilder in fiction. Then I made a couple as NPCs - and I'm hooked. I'm heading out to a game right now, but I'll post what I found a bit later.

 

[James McMurray]

Check out ny Story Hour (link in the sig).

The party's Wilder is a powerhouse of destruction. He has the same BAB a the fighter in the group, gets 10 more hit points from vigor, deals 2d6 more damage with his rays, and can move in to melee when his power points run low. He just got Claws of the Vampire via Expanded Knowledge, which means his melee damage is going to kyrocket, and Crystal Shard give him an amazing ranged attack.

 

[Coredump]

At 12th level you can wild surge a 6th level power by 4 levels, which means she could apply Maximize Power to the power without it even costing extra power points. Compare this to a 12th level psion, who won't be able to maximize that power for another 3 levels, and will have to spend 4 extra power points to do it.

Sure, that is the one-trick-pony aspect I was talking about. People complain because a sorcerer is too limited with the spell selection... yet wilder is much worse.
Even the above, assuming Psionic Mediation (or whatever lets gain focus be a MEA), there is a 50-50 chance that maximizing that spell *3* times will cause the wilder to spend a round doing nothing. And that is assuming you are using a power that benifits from maximize, and that you are willing to give up *17* powers to be able to do this.

Now, I guess it is kinda like the tricked out fighter, that can only do lots of melee damage.... it just seems way too limiting.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Don't overlook the fact that augmented powers are the equivalent of more than one spell.

An obvious example is that Astral Construct is a brilliant 1st level power to obtain via expanded knowledge, and it gives you the equivalent of summon monster I-IX all in one power.

Other examples could equally be chosen.

 

[Spatula]

Or Psionic Charm, which can be augmented from Charm Person to Charm Persons, Giants, Monstrous Humanoids, Animals, and Magical Beasts to Charm Monster to Mass versions of all of those.

Unfortunately, a Wilder will need the Expanded Knowledge feat to access most of those sort of powers.

 

[Urbanmech]

I was making some wilder NPC's just to see what they could do. A 14th lv Wilder with Temporal Acceleration and Extend Power can wild surge and gain a 4 round Time Stop. A feat other casters can't do till 17th lv. Plus he is going to get 4 rounds out of his time stop vs the wizards 2-5. Wilders are also great with Astral Construct. That same 14th lv Wilder can summon Astral Construct IX's! Very Bad Ass for 14th lv. I'm pretty sure the trick with wilders is picking powers that gain a lot of benefit from augmentation.

 

[The Souljourner]

Souljourner, you're right on everything except how psionic disintegrate gets augmented.

You can't just say that and not tell me how I'm wrong! It's terribly rude

Are you talking about the last little bit in wild surge about how you only have to pay the base cost, not the augmented cost? I seriously doubt they meant that a 12th level wilder could augment a 1st level power to 16th manifester level and only pay 1 point. That seems a little too ridiculous.

Please let me know where I'm wrong so I can either avoid the mistake in the future, or argue about why I'm not wrong

-The Souljourner

 

[Spatula]

No, I think you're right, unless there's something I'm missing. Psionic Disintigrate's damage is 22d6 base and increases by 2d6 per PP. So a 12th level Wilder doing a 4-level surge can do 22d6 + 2d6 (1-pt augment) + 2d6 * 4 (surge) = 32d6 damage on a failed save for 12 PP.