D&D 3E/3.5 Will 4E combat actually run slowly...slower than 3E?

[Zurai]

My concern is that all of these maneuvers will add more decisions to character creation, not less.

Why, exactly, are choices at character creation a bad thing? Why on earth would you want LESS choices? I think if you'd prefer less choices, original D&D might be more up your alley - then you didn't even have to choose what class you were going to be unless you picked human for your race!

 

[broghammerj]

Why, exactly, are choices at character creation a bad thing? Why on earth would you want LESS choices? I think if you'd prefer less choices, original D&D might be more up your alley - then you didn't even have to choose what class you were going to be unless you picked human for your race!

Well for one, more class choices = more complex NPC creation = more complex DM prepping. It's not that I prefer less choices, it's that the marketing hype for this edition is a more streamlined game with less prep time. Start to add in new abilities based on the weapon your character uses, race has more impact through higher levels, and now you have maneuvers and feats to add. Sounds like a pretty complex PC.

Don't forget the sweet spot is extended to higher levels. What is the sweet spot you might ask? For me personally it is when my character is gaining some moderately cool powers but he's not so powerful that I need to start creating spreadsheets to manage him at higher level.

My other concern alluded to in this post is that combat is simpler. Well every character having a ton of maneuvers doesn't sound like simplicity in a bootle which is what we are being sold.

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't see how combat can get much faster than 3.5e, so I am expecting it to be slower.

Umm? Have you ever played anything other than D&D? Pretty much every rpg system has faster combats than D&D 3.5.

 

[Visceris]

No, no it doesn't. I have played...

RIFTS
GURPS
Cyberpunk 2013/2020
Vampire
Rolemaster *I HATED THIS GAME*
Shadowrun
Star Wars d6
Hero
Fuzion
Alternity
And previous editions of DnD/ADnD

Combat in 3.5e/d20 System in my current gaming group is pretty sleek.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Umm? Have you ever played anything other than D&D? Pretty much every rpg system has faster combats than D&D 3.5.

I've played several other RPGs. Most of them go at about the same pace as D&D, with the notable exception of Exalted, which is the slowest, most horrible combat system I've ever encountered. If you think D&D combat is slow, it's rules complicated and contradictory, try playing that game... :\

 

[SSquirrel]

Why, exactly, are choices at character creation a bad thing? Why on earth would you want LESS choices? I think if you'd prefer less choices, original D&D might be more up your alley - then you didn't even have to choose what class you were going to be unless you picked human for your race!

"I'd like to play a Dwarf Paladin please"
"Well you could, if only Dwarves were ALLOWED to be. What else sounds fun?"
"Couldn't you just house rule it?"
"The book says NO!"
"Ok fine, a halfling mage?"
"Again with the NO."
"Ok fine, I'm just gonna play a Human Fighter"

heh*

*this is of course making fun of 1E not OD&D, but you get the picture

I've played several other RPGs. Most of them go at about the same pace as D&D, with the notable exception of Exalted, which is the slowest, most horrible combat system I've ever encountered. If you think D&D combat is slow, it's rules complicated and contradictory, try playing that game... :\

Ya know, I've played every other WW system I think and enjoyed most of them (except Werewofl), but I looked at a friend's copy of Exalted and the obscene series of charts for working thru your powers and just closed the book and said no thanks. Never even SAW the combat system heh. It wasn't so much that chargen looked daunting as it looked like I would have to spend HOURS trying to figure out which abilities were even decent to start with and then more time to figure out where I really would like to take my character's powers and if that was possible while doing X, Y or Z.

 

[Gentlegamer]

In original D&D, a player character could be anything, from a dragon, goblin, lizard man and so on, that the DM allowed.

 

[SSquirrel]

In original D&D, a player character could be anything, from a dragon, goblin, lizard man and so on, that the DM allowed.

Ahh but what would said character's stats look like? WOuld they also be able to pick a class? We know all these things in 3E. Also, one DM may allow you to make a treant as a PC, the next smacks you in the head and says he's not going to bother coming up with that. Still a possibility in 3E, but less work for the DM.

 

[KingCrab]

Of course I'm also getting a weird vibe, like the system is way less developed than I would have expected this late in the game. The playtesters are houseruling races, classes, etc. while supposedly playtesting the system, it all seems purposefully vague for something they've been working on since 2005, and I'm definitely not getting any type of overall picture, of how anything fits together, how design goals are being approached, or even of what the driving design goals are.

Yeah, I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing this. It really seems like a lot hasn't been decided on yet and that they're planning on releasing a game without any time for serious playtesting.

 

[Fobok]

I'm betting a lot *has* been decided on and they're just not ready to tell us what it is. While they might have general decisions made, it's the fine-tuning of the math that will probably come now and they obviously can't release specifics until the math's complete. Too many fans would eat up all the numbers and scream bloody murder if it ended up unbalanced.