Will all of you Ebberon-buyers become Blackmoor-buyers?

[Kanegrundar]

I got to thinking about why I probably won't pick up Blackmoor upon release and I think Nisarg hit it on the head for me...though my own thoughts on it aren't fueled by a nostalgic investment.

I kinda feel like I'm being lead by a carrot dangling in front of me. Sure, Blackmoor contains all sorts of wahoo elements, but they are only being hinted at in the Core Setting. From what it sounds all I'm really getting from the Core Setting is another classic-styled fantasy setting...even though all these really cool parts are part of the setting. It seems like it's written in a manner to grab the nostalgia crowd, but also to gain some dollars from the more mainstream crowd as well. Good idea, I guess, but I won't be as interested in it with only the hintings of wahoo.

After all, if I'm bored with the basic book what would really make me want to keep up on when sourcebooks are coming out? Putting in a few crunchy bits about even the steam-tech and some of the other lower-tech wahoo elements without giving away the farm seems like more book I'd personally be interested in. Plus, it leaves the door wide-open for sourcebooks that further flesh out what has only briefly touched upon in the core book.

Nothing is more annoying than finding key elements of a setting require another book to even start upon. Give us the basic elements of these things that seem to really make Blackmoor different. After all, by not doing so you're going to lose out on thefans of Blackmoor that are only really interested in the side of the setting that deals with all the weird stuff. You're sort of closing the door before it's even open.

Then again, I am just one consumer. A consumer with only the most basic knowledge of the setting. I could be in the minority here.

Good luck,
Kane

 

[DClingman]

Well thanks for that opinion. I have to disagree with you though. We are not making anyone buy anything.

Maybe you should just wait till you see it. If you want you laser sword, that's no problem, go get it. The campaign is relaunching pretty much from the go. At this point, nobody knows about what might have been the Temple of the Frog, Nobody knows about what might have been the Valley of the Ancients or the identity of the great and powerful Egg of Coot. There is alot of history, but most of the players we have/will have are not going to have played through those things. We have to re-explain them for all the new players. This way just made more sense.

Think about the other side of the coin. We are also trying to deal with the OD&D crowd that thinks any 3e rulesets are a waste of space. They want fluff, fluff and more fluff. No book can be all things to everyone. That's a fact that my friends Ari and Colin helped me realize about a year ago. Try to evaluate Dave Arneson's Blackmoor for what it is, not what it is not in your mindset.

If you must have that laser sword, I will stat it out just for you, but you have to remember that no everyone has the knowledge about Blackmoor that you think you will have about this version. It won't be boring, that I can promise you.

Dustin

 

[DClingman]

The Egg of Coot? Is that a nab at E. Gary Gygax?

It's an often made mistake, but the answer is a definite no. I do know the real identity of the EGG and it remains a secret. Ask Dave is you want to know the answer.

Dustin

 

[Nisarg]

Dustin,

I have to admit I'm really baffled by your response here. Let's assume for a moment that you are trying to sell Blackmoor to new fans primarily, and not to the old fans who woudl definitely want the laser sword...

How are you going to sell Blackmoor to someone who's never heard of or played in Blackmoor?

Are you going to have a BETTER chance of success if you say "Blackmoor is a setting with kingdoms and wizards and monsters mostly like every other d20 fantasy setting out there"
or
"Blackmoor is a fantasy world with a twist: an alien starship crashed in a remote section of the game setting and now there is a diffusion of high technology (but with a very fantasy feel) changing this previously more-or-less vanilla world. There's laser swords, lightning bolt rifles, evil frogmen, steampunk, its all really exciting".

Which would sell better?

Why play down the things that make the setting different from the Realms or Midnight or Eberron or Greyhawk?

How else are you going to sell it to newcomers? The "its the oldest" schtick won't really matter to a lot of the newbies out there.. but the "its fantasy with lightsabers and alien tech" sure is neat.

Nisarg

 

[DClingman]

I got to thinking about why I probably won't pick up Blackmoor upon release and I think Nisarg hit it on the head for me...though my own thoughts on it aren't fueled by a nostalgic investment.

I kinda feel like I'm being lead by a carrot dangling in front of me. Sure, Blackmoor contains all sorts of wahoo elements, but they are only being hinted at in the Core Setting. From what it sounds all I'm really getting from the Core Setting is another classic-styled fantasy setting...even though all these really cool parts are part of the setting. It seems like it's written in a manner to grab the nostalgia crowd, but also to gain some dollars from the more mainstream crowd as well. Good idea, I guess, but I won't be as interested in it with only the hintings of wahoo.

After all, if I'm bored with the basic book what would really make me want to keep up on when sourcebooks are coming out? Putting in a few crunchy bits about even the steam-tech and some of the other lower-tech wahoo elements without giving away the farm seems like more book I'd personally be interested in. Plus, it leaves the door wide-open for sourcebooks that further flesh out what has only briefly touched upon in the core book.

Nothing is more annoying than finding key elements of a setting require another book to even start upon. Give us the basic elements of these things that seem to really make Blackmoor different. After all, by not doing so you're going to lose out on thefans of Blackmoor that are only really interested in the side of the setting that deals with all the weird stuff. You're sort of closing the door before it's even open.

Then again, I am just one consumer. A consumer with only the most basic knowledge of the setting. I could be in the minority here.

Good luck,
Kane

You are getting the wrong idea here. Speculation isn't useful for a book that is 240 pages. There is *plenty* of wahoo in there. The key is that in order to do the things correctly, we had to take a high level view of what could be accomplished.

Just because the laser swords and complete 60 page handbook of gizmo's and gadgets isn't crudly shoved into the book doesn't mean we didn't execute the book well. Just wait and see, it won't cost you anything to pick up the book and look at it in the store. It's a world that's 30

We have some review copies out there that will eventually come back around. All we ask is an open mind and a chance.

Dustin

 

[Nisarg]

Dustin,

If any setting has earned the benefit of the doubt its Blackmoor.

I hope and pray it will be done right.

Maybe to assuage our fears you could tell us more about what IS in the book?

Because so far we're learning about what isn't, and its not inspiring us:
There isn't, from what I understand, the stats for laser swords or rifles.
There isn't, from what i understand, stats for black powder weapons.
There isn't, from what I understand, stats for steampunk stuff.
There isn't, from what I understand, details about the Egg of Coot.

If you want to get laser swords or rifles, as I understand, you'll have to wait till a sourcebook comes out and pay extra for it.
If you want to get black powder weapons, you'll probably just have to use the DMG.
If you want to get steampunk stuff, you'll have to wait till a sourcebook comes out and pay extra for it.
If you want to know the truth about the EGG, you'll have to wait and get a sourcebook for it.

So, as far as we know, the current Blackmoor main book is a 240 page tease and a 240 page ad for more books that we will be forced to buy if we want to play in the complete setting. Can you see how that would be frustrating?

I hope you can answer the following: is the main book itself a complete setting?? Can I play in the EGG Of coot with it? can I play with high tech and steampunk with it alone?
If not, what the hell can I do?

It sounds like you're becoming frustrated with the pessimism we're showing here.. part of that pessimism is because so far you've only told us "no, sorry, that won't be in the book.. nope, neither will that.. if you want that i can just stat it out for you here, but you sure ain't going to find it in the book.. that? nope you'll have to buy another book for that.. nope, you can just use the one line entry in the DMG for that one.. sorry.."
So how about instead selling us on what the book DOES have? Convince me it'll be worth my time to get it.. not with vague promises that "you'll like it, trust me".. tell me what it has that will make me like it!

Nisarg

 

[DClingman]

I got to thinking about why I probably won't pick up Blackmoor upon release and I think Nisarg hit it on the head for me...though my own thoughts on it aren't fueled by a nostalgic investment.

I kinda feel like I'm being lead by a carrot dangling in front of me. Sure, Blackmoor contains all sorts of wahoo elements, but they are only being hinted at in the Core Setting. From what it sounds all I'm really getting from the Core Setting is another classic-styled fantasy setting...even though all these really cool parts are part of the setting. It seems like it's written in a manner to grab the nostalgia crowd, but also to gain some dollars from the more mainstream crowd as well. Good idea, I guess, but I won't be as interested in it with only the hintings of wahoo.

After all, if I'm bored with the basic book what would really make me want to keep up on when sourcebooks are coming out? Putting in a few crunchy bits about even the steam-tech and some of the other lower-tech wahoo elements without giving away the farm seems like more book I'd personally be interested in. Plus, it leaves the door wide-open for sourcebooks that further flesh out what has only briefly touched upon in the core book.

Nothing is more annoying than finding key elements of a setting require another book to even start upon. Give us the basic elements of these things that seem to really make Blackmoor different. After all, by not doing so you're going to lose out on thefans of Blackmoor that are only really interested in the side of the setting that deals with all the weird stuff. You're sort of closing the door before it's even open.

Then again, I am just one consumer. A consumer with only the most basic knowledge of the setting. I could be in the minority here.

Good luck,
Kane

You are getting the wrong idea here. Speculation isn't useful for a book that is 240 pages. There is *plenty* of wahoo in there. The key is that in order to do the things correctly, we had to take a high level view of what could be accomplished.

Just because the laser swords and complete 60 page handbook of gizmo's and gadgets isn't crudly shoved into the book doesn't mean we didn't execute the book well. Just wait and see, it won't cost you anything to pick up the book and look at it in the store. It's a world that's 30 years old, how can you put everything in a single book?

We have some review copies out there that will eventually come back around. All we ask is an open mind and a chance.

Dustin

 

[Ranger REG]

How are you going to sell Blackmoor to someone who's never heard of or played in Blackmoor?

Geez, Nisarg! :\

What the hell do you want from him? A detailed marketing playbook?

If you're that concerned, apply for the company's marketing agent job.

 

[DClingman]

I am going to hang out in the EnWorld chat room (irc.psionics.net) Room #dnd3e. You can get there from the top of the main page easily. My nick is ZG_Dustin. I will post longer replies later, but if you want immediate answers, ping me there.

Dustin

 

[rangerjohn]

At the risk of repeating previous posters, what's unique about Blackmoor? Everything that has been presented so far is generic. With mulple settings out there for 3e already, it seems you've pulled the flavour out of the campaign for the generic. I assume this was to appeal to a broader base of people who never heard of Blackmoor. But we keep coming back to the question, with every thing from Forgotten Realms to Arcana Unearthed out there, what's setting Blackmoor apart? In the past it was the elements you pulled out, now all we see are 'new' races and classes. Sorry to tell you, thats been done already.