Will it Blend? Mirror Image and Displacement

[Persiflage]

1) Cast Mirror Image or Mirror Image, Greater
2) Cast Displacement

Does the Displacement also affect the images, giving them a 50% miss chance? My gut feeling is that the rules as written say no, but I'm inclined to allow it anyway on the grounds that it won't significantly affect gameplay. I was just curious as to how people here tend to rule such stacking effects where there's no "programmed" game interaction.

I say it won't affect gameplay much as combats with this party rarely get to Round 3, let alone beyond: the character who wants to do it is just paranoid.

 

[Dandu]

"You and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic your actions, pretending to cast spells when you cast a spell, drink potions when you drink a potion, levitate when you levitate, and so on.
Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets."

Basically, they will look exactly like you so as to fool detection. So if you are under the effect of the Displacment spell and appear 2 feet off, then they will too.

Here's the thing; Enemies who attack your Displacement miss because they hit something that's not you. Mirror Images have no actual form that they are displaced from, so this does not apply to them; the Displaced image of themselves is their only form.

Now, Blur on the other hand, would probably help the Mirror Images because it distorts, shifts, and weaves the outline of the subject (you) and this would help the images avoid attacks.

Just my opinion, of course. You can make an argument the other way, and it wouldn't be out and out wrong...

 

[steeldragons]

I'd be inclined to say "Sure. Why not?" Simply for the sake of flavor and creative spell use by the player.

While Dandu's distinction between the real/non-real of the displaced PC vs. the not-real/not-real of the displaced mirror image is very well-noted and true/makes sense. My understanding is, with Mirror Image, when one of the phantasms is struck, it disappears...while the others remain. So where's the harm in giving the mirror image replicas a 50% that they are NOT struck...and so would not disappear, maintain greater confusion/cover for the PC.

It's simply an illusion over an illusion...like Photoshop layering. I say allow it.

Now, if the character want a wall of themselves all blended together or out of focus, then yes, stack the mirror image with blur would give you the visual effect you're after....Also sounds like a new spell, "instill mass headache" to me.

--SD

 

[Persiflage]

Heheh - I like the Photoshop analogy. Dandu's thinking is much the same as my own: OK, you've got a figment in one spot displaced to be a figment somewhere else, but it still disappears when struck.

The counter-argument offered by the player (all in the greatest good spirit, I hasten to add) when this was proposed was "Aha, yes, but these figments are obviously some sort of special case because they disappear when struck. That means that the spell has some form of collision-detection built in. Figments are a bundle of sensory impressions, but Displacement is a glamer, and glamers change a subjects sensory qualities to appear to be something other than what they are, but it wouldn't affect the Mirror Image spell's "detection" of being struck."

I've condensed it a bit, but I believe that was the substance of the argument.

Overlapping spell effects are a constant adjudication niggle with this group. I don't mind it at all - I thoroughly approve when players make good use of spells - but it can slow down play from time to time. I've had to institute a "gentlemen's agreement" with the players that they'll warn me in advance (usually at the end of a session to give me time to think it through) before springing some new combo that's likely to cause a rules headache, and I in turn promise to give no thought to countering it until it has been used in play at least once.

The "Blur and Mirror Image" Photoshop layering (heh) was done months ago, but abandoned on the grounds that it really didn't add much to the mix... or at least, I assume that's why they stopped doing it. Sometimes I swear they come up with this stuff just for kicks and get bored once I've allowed it

 

[steeldragons]

Sounds like you have a creative bunch on your hands, Persiflage. All the better, right!

Players coming up with "spell strategies" to thwart, or at least confound, the DM is a time-honored tradition...or perpetual plague...depending on what side of the screen you're on. haha. And I think you're on to something with the feeling that "once it's ok, it's no fun, anymore." Like kids with new toys that they're done with a week later. Can still make for some great game moments, though.

If it gets out of hand...I've found sometimes that when "interesting" magical combos are thrown back at players, they have a tendency to think carefully what they want to "try out". Maybe a recurring villain who's fought them before or just came up with it on their own. "You figured out how to cast them together. So..."

Best of luck (to you and your players). Have fun.
--SD

 

[Persiflage]

Oh yeah, they are (creative) and we do (have fun)

I even started cataloguing "1001 uses for Silent Image" at one point. My personal favourite is "Create the illusion of a giant one-way mirror in front of the party, granting them total concealment but not spoiling the aim of the party missile combatants."

And I'm just as evil about spell applications as they are, so it's all good. What's really embarrassing is when you pull off a combo to thwart the players and they point out whatever flaw there is that makes it illegal...

...and then fix your exploit and use it against you the following session

It's all great fun; high-powered games, optimised builds and all kinds of metamagical tomfoolery are standard in this group, and having experienced it these past few years I don't think I could go back to running more restrictive campaigns.

 

[Jhaelen]

1) Cast Mirror Image or Mirror Image, Greater
2) Cast Displacement

Does the Displacement also affect the images, giving them a 50% miss chance?

Sure. I think this question was even answered in the FAQ.

 

[irdeggman]

Sure. I think this question was even answered in the FAQ.

Sort of, here is the closest question/answer from the FAQ - but I think it works to solidify people's opinions (so far).

What happens if a mirror image user is incorporeal? Are
the user’s images also incorporeal? Do attacks aimed at the
images have the incorporeal miss chance? If the incorporeal
user moves through a wall, can the images move through
the wall, too? What happens if the user goes to another
plane? Do the images go along? What if the mirror image
user employs a blink spell?

Incorporeal spell casters create corporeal effects. So the
figments from an incorporeal user’s mirror image spell are
themselves corporeal. Attacks aimed at the images have no
incorporeal miss chance.

The images, however, appear like the caster and move as
the caster moves. If an incorporeal user moves through a wall,
its mirror images also appear to move through the wall.
If a mirror image user moves to another plane, the images
go along. If the user employs a blink spell, the images blink
right along with the user, and any attack aimed at an image has
the same miss chance (50%) it has if aimed at the caster.