Will Spycraft dominate d20 Modern?

[Azgulor]

With the imminent release of Spycraft 2.0, I suspect the "Which is better, d20 Modern vs. Spycraft" debate will pick up again. I held off purchasing Spycraft after learning that the 2.0 edition was in the works. While I like the flexibility of the d20 Modern class system I have to admit things like their firearm rules leave a lot to be desired. Also, although well-supported by 3rd-party publishers, WotC's support has been lip-service only in my opinion - d20 Future was a good book that could have been a great book. D20 Past parallels the Alternity print approach too closely for my tastes. Although there are additional books planned, I sense that if WotC wanted to drop d20 Modern tomorrow, there wouldn't be even a moment's hesitation.

Having looked over the Spycraft 2.0 previews I have to say a lot of it seems to have very appealing or unique elements. The suggestion is made that the book is written to better support the broader modern genre beyond spies - hard to tell from the previews but this book has moved onto my "Must Buy" list.

Does anyone know what the plan is for the Spycraft line to support other genres (as in supplements)? If Spycraft will be able to support a broader range of modern games, I for one would love to see a company really get behind a sci-fi (or series of sci-fi) treatment of Spycraft.

If Spycraft can support horror, military, cops-n-robbers, modern occult, cyberpunk, etc. Would Spycraft convert any of the d20 Modern fans out there?

Or would you pick and choose your favorite bits from the two books? (Until I have the Spycraft book in my hands, this is my default assumption of what I would do.)

Thanks,

Azgulor

 

[Henry]

There are two BIIIG draws for d20 Modern still:

1) Established customer support outside of WotC
2) The rules are still 99% available for free; therefore, you don't have to coax members of the group to buy a $40 book

On those two factors alone means that Modern will still have a decently strong presence. Will Spycraft or Modern be the stronger brand? Too early to tell. If they have ways to modify the core rules so that Vp/WP can be made less wild and wahoo, then it definitely would find a place in more genres.

 

[Committed Hero]

I suppose it depends on how closely Spycraft sticks to its espionage roots. I didn't think the original version meshed well with the occult; whereas d20 Modern is designed squarely with magic and other FX in mind.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Depends on how well supported it is and how easy it is for 3rd party to do support for it.

Charles Rice various BLood & series for example, might benefit from a little Spycraft augmentation or change of focus, but is the audience there for it?

 

[JPL]

With the imminent release of Spycraft 2.0, I suspect the "Which is better, d20 Modern vs. Spycraft" debate will pick up again. I held off purchasing Spycraft after learning that the 2.0 edition was in the works. While I like the flexibility of the d20 Modern class system I have to admit things like their firearm rules leave a lot to be desired. Also, although well-supported by 3rd-party publishers, WotC's support has been lip-service only in my opinion - d20 Future was a good book that could have been a great book. D20 Past parallels the Alternity print approach too closely for my tastes. Although there are additional books planned, I sense that if WotC wanted to drop d20 Modern tomorrow, there wouldn't be even a moment's hesitation.

Having looked over the Spycraft 2.0 previews I have to say a lot of it seems to have very appealing or unique elements. The suggestion is made that the book is written to better support the broader modern genre beyond spies - hard to tell from the previews but this book has moved onto my "Must Buy" list.

Does anyone know what the plan is for the Spycraft line to support other genres (as in supplements)? If Spycraft will be able to support a broader range of modern games, I for one would love to see a company really get behind a sci-fi (or series of sci-fi) treatment of Spycraft.

If Spycraft can support horror, military, cops-n-robbers, modern occult, cyberpunk, etc. Would Spycraft convert any of the d20 Modern fans out there?

Or would you pick and choose your favorite bits from the two books? (Until I have the Spycraft book in my hands, this is my default assumption of what I would do.)

Thanks,

Azgulor

I don't understand the comment that d20 Modern support from WotC has been "lip service"...aside from the fact that the whole idea of the OGL is to allow 3rd party publishers to create support products, there's actually been a steady stream of new books from WotC, covering quite a bit of ground in terms of content.

I also don't understand your perception that "if WotC wanted to drop d20 Modern tomorrow, there wouldn't be even a moment's hesitation." WotC is a business, and I imagine they will keep doing d20 Modern as long as that's a good business decision.

d20 Modern seems to be taking a modular approach, and I like that. Here's a campaign sketch, here's some rules options, now get in there and play.

This is just my personal opinion....but with AEG, I feel like every setting --- Theah, Rokugan, Shadowforce: Archer --- has an impossibly convoluted backstory spread out over a dozen or more supplements, with far more attention paid to the doings of various NPC movers and shakers that to the PCs. And the metaplot is driven by collectable card games or something like that, right?

I mean, when I was twelve, I had the time to read and reread the Forgotten Realms old grey box...those days are long past. Now, everytime I sit down and try to read the summary of Rokugan's history in the back of Oriental Adventures, my eyes glaze over. It's too much information that just has nothing to do with introducing new players to the world.

AEG seems to get on the d20 bandwagon and get off...well, "without a moment's hesitation," to use your phrase...with d20 rules for Rokugan and Theah introduced and then dropped.

And then there's Stargate and Farscape...maybe it's not their fault, but when AEG comes out with a licensed setting, can anyone really count on it to be around for long?

 

[Ymdar]

Will Spycraft dominate d20 Modern?

Nope. At least not here. I never heard of Spycraft and I don't intend to buy the book either. Not even 2.0. I won't pay $40 for a book that I could reproduce on my own.

Edit: W00t! This is my 100th post!

 

[Vigilance]

There's other factors at play with Spycraft when it comes to 3rd party support.

I have no clue about the 2nd edition, but I know the 1st edition had enough unique, non-OGC elements involved that you basically had to get AEG's permission to make books for Spycraft using their "Powered by Spycraft" license.

While we at RPGObjects have investigated releasing modern themed books under other "sub licenses" such as powered by Spycraft or M&M Superlink, there's a lot of reasons that those licenses arent attractive to us.

This isnt a knock on those licenses themselves, I can see why a company like AEG or GR would want such a license.

Just saying that for us, with the ability to release a product for d20 Modern and expect a certain level of interest from our customers, doing another edition, under another license, with additional hoops to jump through, ends up not being very attractive for us most of the time.

Chuck

 

[Vigilance]

AEG just makes me a little nervous. "Swashbuckling Adventures" was a major missed opportunity. To me, Rokugan and Theah both just seemed choked with metaplot...and AEG, after trying to bring in new gamers with dual-statting, changed their minds and dropped d20. And now the reboot to 2.0 [although I admit D&D 3.5 didn't bother me]...

Well, I think the decision to release Spycraft 2.0 was independant of the decision to return Rokugan to its non-d20 roots but I think both decisions had to do with sales.

I just think the sales of the Spycraft supplements had slipped, which is the time to release a new edition to revitalize the franchise. White Wolf showed the world how successful (and financially rewarding) a strategy like this was, and WOTC and AEG are merely implementing that wisdom.

Chuck

 

[Azgulor]

Depends on how well supported it is and how easy it is for 3rd party to do support for it.

Charles Rice various BLood & series for example, might benefit from a little Spycraft augmentation or change of focus, but is the audience there for it?

I think both are valid points. Specific to your second point, I think the audience is there. Right now, many rpg-ers use d20 for Fantasy and other systems for modern or sci-fi games because many seem to feel that d20 Modern is merely D&D with modern window dressing. I have yet to read one review that suggests that d20 Future provides the same depth or utility as Star Hero or GURPS Space for example. The only criticism I ever read about Spycraft 1.0 on a RPG forum was that it's classes weren't broad enough to emulate the full range of modern styles of play (unsurprising in a game called Spycraft). Maybe its fans were just more vocal, but most forum posters who had both books seemed to prefer Spycrafts mechanics over d20 Modern (Vitality/Wounds, firearm rules, etc.) The Stargate RPG shows that the game can handle other genres.

So Spycraft 2.0 comes out for the core audience. World on Fire provides the official spy-action campaign. What about future supplements? Rather than focusing a licensed property like Stargate, show how Spycraft can be massaged (as d20 Future did to d20 Modern) to supporting a sci-fi genre (Space Opera, Cyberpunk, Apocalyptic, etc.). If Spycraft rules can be adapted to supporting alternative genres (Pulp, Technothriller, Occult, gritty military, near-future sci-fi, far-future sci-fi, etc. as examples) I think we could have a much stronger base for growing a d20 fan base that isn't focused on Fantasy.

If Spycraft meets or exceeds my expectations, then I would definitely want to see a Blood & x update/variant with Spycraft tweaking.

Azgulor

 

[C. Baize]

Nope. At least not here. I never heard of Spycraft and I don't intend to buy the book either. Not even 2.0. I won't pay $40 for a book that I could reproduce on my own.

Edit: W00t! This is my 100th post!

Yeah.
While I HAVE heard of Spycraft, everything I've heard makes me stick to D20 Modern for Modern / Future genre gaming. I've houseruled the few bits that didn't work well, and I'm solidly entrenched in the D20 Modern camp.
Besides... I'm a Blood & ______ junkie.