Will the WOTC Gametable return or is it dead forever?

[malraux]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind it they cut the game table and visualizer and kept the D&DI price the same. I am absolutely fine for paying $60 a year for the bonus tools and the magazines. That comes down to $5 a month. That's awesome.

This is my feeling on the matter. Additional features I'll never use at a higher cost is a net loss for me.

 

[Truename]

I'm not going to comment on the rage in this thread, but I thought this quote was interesting:

D&D Insider

Think the game ends with the words on these pages? Think again! Check out D&D Insider for all kinds of information, game tools, and community participation in your favorite game. For a nominal subscription, D&D Insider unlocks the ongoing content of Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine online, with issue updates happening multiple times each week. In addition to great articles, adventure hooks, and inside information, D&D Insider provides an interactive database of all things D&D, a custom D&D character builder that helps you create and manage your characters, a suite of powerful tools to help Dungeon Masters manage their adventures and campaigns, and the remarkable D&D Game Table that turns the Internet into your kitchen table so that you can play D&D with distant friends - anytime, anywhere! D&D insider is constantly updated with new material, new stories, new tools, and new features dedicated to the phenomenom that is the D&D experience.

So, have they done what they said they would?

* Nominal subscription: yes - $5-$8
* Dungeon and Dragon online: yes
* Issue updates happening multiple times each week: yes
* Articles: yes
* Adventure hooks: yes - "Steal This Hook"
* Inside information: yes - previews, designer diary, playtest
* Interactive database of all things D&D: yes - Compendium
* Custom D&D character builder: yes
* Tools to help DMs manage adventures: sort of - bonus tools
* Tools to help DMs manage campaigns: not really - bonus tools
* D&D Game Table: no
* Constantly updated with new material: yes
* Constantly updated with new stories: yes
* Constantly updated with new tools: not really - existing tools are regularly updated
* Constantly updated with new features: sort of - Dragon

I'll leave the analysis to others.

 

[kenmarable]

You say that like it isn't a possibility that they only have 2 programmers.

Actually I did consider that (and totally pity those two folks), but take a look at the Character Builder credits. Even excluding "Character Builder concept" and "Brand Team" sort of credits, there's 40-50 people in there. It's actually a bigger team than I thought. (I was thinking in the 20-30 range with several million in employee costs.)

It's sort of apples and oranges (but still both fruit), but before the layoffs started killing the web application shop I used to work at, we topped out at around 100 employees (including administrative staff) with about $12 million in yearly revenue (around 2003 or 4, I think). That included about 5-6 "major" projects a year and 20 or so medium to small projects. From my outside perspective, I'd call one of our "major" projects on par with the Character Builder and would probably have had a team of 10-15 people on it largely full time. Something like the Compendium would be a small project with a team of the core five (Project Manager, QA, Server Side Programmer, Client Side Web Dev, & Artist), but most would be on multiple small projects at once. However, that was all web-application based whereas these hit everywhere along the web app/installed app range with different skills needed in each.

I'll also freely admit that I know squat about the DirectX programming necessary for the Virtual Tabletop and Character Visualizer, so I don't know how many programmers are needed for that sort of thing.

So overall, from the impression of the Character Builder credits, I'd say the DDI group is larger than I thought, and might even be larger than the D&D team itself. However, it's hard to tell how many of those people in the credits were among the layoffs and/or left, and how many were later additions. But from the general impression, there's quite a few people over there cranking away on DDI. And I've probably rambled long enough on this especially in response to a joke.

 

[Shemeska]

Actually I did consider that (and totally pity those two folks), but take a look at the Character Builder credits. Even excluding "Character Builder concept" and "Brand Team" sort of credits, there's 40-50 people in there.

However it's probably worth taking into account that WotC probably is including the old Radiant Machine coders in that list, and then whoever in-house they had, and given the layoffs, they may have had some significant turnover in the ranks of their coders. So a small team currently coding may balloon in size if those are added in.

 

[Shemeska]

I'll leave the analysis to others.

Almost a year after they originally claimed that they would have all the pieces ready for release, they've only put out the lowest hanging fruit of the original plan. That's far from success in my mind.

 

[El Mahdi]

...but I thought this quote was interesting:

D&D Insider

Think the game ends with the words on these pages? Think again! Check out D&D Insider for all kinds of information, game tools, and community participation in your favorite game. For a nominal subscription, D&D Insider unlocks the ongoing content of Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine online, with issue updates happening multiple times each week. In addition to great articles, adventure hooks, and inside information, D&D Insider provides an interactive database of all things D&D, a custom D&D character builder that helps you create and manage your characters, a suite of powerful tools to help Dungeon Masters manage their adventures and campaigns, and the remarkable D&D Game Table that turns the Internet into your kitchen table so that you can play D&D with distant friends - anytime, anywhere! D&D insider is constantly updated with new material, new stories, new tools, and new features dedicated to the phenomenom that is the D&D experience.

...So, have they done what they said they would?

* Nominal subscription: yes - $5-$8
* Dungeon and Dragon online: yes
* Issue updates happening multiple times each week: yes
* Articles: yes
* Adventure hooks: yes - "Steal This Hook"
* Inside information: yes - previews, designer diary, playtest
* Interactive database of all things D&D: yes - Compendium
* Custom D&D character builder: yes
* Tools to help DMs manage adventures: sort of - bonus tools
* Tools to help DMs manage campaigns: not really - bonus tools
* D&D Game Table: no
* Constantly updated with new material: yes
* Constantly updated with new stories: yes
* Constantly updated with new tools: not really - existing tools are regularly updated
* Constantly updated with new features: sort of - Dragon

I'll leave the analysis to others.

Not Quite.

* Issue updates happening multiple times each week: yes
* Articles: yes
* Adventure hooks: yes - "Steal This Hook"
* Inside information: yes - previews, designer diary, playtest
* Constantly updated with new material: yes
* Constantly updated with new stories: yes
* Constantly updated with new features: sort of - Dragon

All of these are true, but they are things that are minimum expectations of, and included in Dragon and Dungeon. But good job trying to "pad the resume".

And "Issue Updates" multiple times each month is just a clever way of saying "we are spreading the issue release out over a whole month". But again, nice try.

* Interactive database of all things D&D: yes - Compendium

Yes - but not ready at the time of 4E's release - as promised.

* Custom D&D character builder: yes

Yes - but again not ready at the time of 4E's release - in point of fact, seven months late. While possibly acceptable to you, to most "late" is unacceptable, and "seven months late" is very unacceptable - period.

* Tools to help DMs manage adventures: sort of - bonus tools
* Tools to help DMs manage campaigns: not really - bonus tools

Negative - the Bonus Tools are exactly that - "Bonus" tools. The Campaign Management tools in question were supposed to allow players to save characters online, and allow DM's to save NPC's, Monsters, and Campaign Notes, etc. These applications have not been released yet, with no word of when, or if, they will be released. The "Bonus Tools" were an add on meant to show customers that Yes, there was still actual work going on to complete DDI. They were very simple programs. Very similiar to dozens of other free programs scattered across the internet. Not exactly a selling point, and nothing that adds "value" to the product when anyone can get similiar programs for free.

* D&D Game Table: no

True, but you seem to have conveniently forgotten:

* Character Visualizer: no
* Dungeon Builder: no
* Campaign Tools: no

What was "promised" was more than just what is in that quote, but also what was advertised and marketed prior to 4E's release. Using only that quote as a benchmark for success is only half of the story.


So, corrected to be more factual and representative:

So, have they done what they said they would?

* Nominal subscription: yes - $5-$8 (except will probably significantly increase when new "promised" applications come on line - then we'll see just how nominal the subscription fees really are)

* Dungeon and Dragon online with all promised and expected features: yes
* Interactive database of all things D&D: yes - Compendium, but not ready at the time of 4E's release
* Custom D&D character builder: yes, but seven months late
* Bonus Tools (not advertised previously as part of D&DI): yes (extra credit)
* Tools to help DMs manage adventures and campaigns: negative
* D&D Game Table: no
* Character Visualizer: no
* Dungeon Tools: no
* Constantly updated with new tools: not really - existing tools are regularly updated

Four "Yes's" - with two of them delivered "LATE"
Four "No's"
and One "Extra Credit"


I'll leave the analysis to others.

Now, analyze away.

 

[El Mahdi]

almost a year after they originally claimed that they would have all the pieces ready for release, they've only put out the lowest hanging fruit of the original plan. That's far from success in my mind.

Analysis Complete!

Analysis Confidence = 100%

 

[The Ghost]

By "deliver on promised software," do mean that the final product must exactly match the initial announcement, in content and timing of release?

If so, nothing they have announced to date could meet that definition. In other words, you will not extend the benefit of doubt until after they successfully release some software that they haven't yet announced. In other, other words, not for (presumably) quite some time at the earliest.

If not, what do you mean? They've delivered the Character Builder. Late, to be sure, but only by seven months, which isn't that long in the world of software. And it's pretty kick-ass; a few people have issues, but you can't please everyone.

Exactly, they cannot satisfy me for what they already failed to deliver. The online gaming experience is what I most looked forward to. It is what got me to purchase my Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Masters Guide. As of right now those products have been virtually useless to me as my two long running home games will stay with BECMI and 3.5. (We may switch to 4e when either of those games ends - but that may still be quite some time away.) I had looked forward to being able to get in some pick-up games online from time-to-time. The fact that I have not irritates me.

I also happen to be a business owner. I know from experience that if I promise a product and then fail to deliver on that product - I loose customers. WotC is quickly loosing me as a customer.

 

[maddman75]

Almost a year after they originally claimed that they would have all the pieces ready for release, they've only put out the lowest hanging fruit of the original plan. That's far from success in my mind.

Do you ever buy software? Commercial software is, as a rule, late, lacking in promised features, and buggy. Part of the business.

 

[El Mahdi]

Do you ever buy software? Commercial software is, as a rule, late, lacking in promised features, and buggy. Part of the business.

It's part of the business because people accept it as part of the business. A sad commentary on our modern world, but true. If you hold a programmer to a timeline, a timeline that should be honestly and realistically communicated from the programmer to the customer in the first place, and they don't complete the project on time, they should be fired and a new programmer found - period. If people accept unrealistic timelines and sub-standard performance (not accomplishing a task on time is sub-standard performance) then lateness in the software industry will continue to be an endemic problem. Demand quality, on-time, and penalize programmers for the lack of those very things, and the only programmers that will continue to get work and make a living will be those who provide quality digital products in a timely manner.




Gee, I think I read that "provide quality digital products in a timely manner" part somewhere recently?

Oh, Yeah. WoTC online survey. Imagine that.


p.s.: Those managers who accept an unrealistic timeline from a programer, are just as much at fault for the failure as the programmer. This is called sub-standard management.