Will this work?

Darklone · Jan 24, 2003

No sneak attack damage with grenade like weapons like alchemists fire...

Yeah, I always thought the Arcane Trickster fit the Bard/Rogue combo well... but they included that sucking 3rd level arcane spell into the prerequs. Sucks.

Kae'Yoss · Jan 24, 2003

Pielorinho said:
That's fine -- it just sounded like you were coming down really hard on people for trying to make effective characters.

No, I wouldn't think of it. I'm one of those myself. But I always look that the character has a personality, too, and I drive the min/maxing only so far. What I don't like is people who make the character effective and completely disregard things like personality or background on the way.

Archer · Jan 24, 2003

If I player wanted 5 ranks of a profession skill other than herbalist IMC then I would let them have it for free. If they wanted a craft other than weapons, armor, bows, poison, or traps they could have 5 ranks for free. If they wanted a level of commoner when they created a character I'd start them with 1000 xp. If commoner was their only class, I'd start them at level 5. If you want 2 or 3 feats for roleplaying purposes you can have them for 1 feat choice. I figure 3 bad feats should be close enough to 1 useful feat. I wouldn't let 3 for 1 feats be used as prereqs for a prestige class though. I've considered making a bunch of lesser skills purchasable 2 for 1 such as jump, climb, swim, craft, profession, knowledge (other) and use rope.

Once you have 12 ranks in perform and a masterwork instrument you can give enjoyable performances in your sleep and give extraordinary performances 20% of the time. That a pretty good minstrel in my book.

Kae'Yoss · Jan 24, 2003

A character who stops improving starts deteriorating.

A bard who sais: "I can impress most people. I'll stop trying to get better with my performances and start making candles" has let down his fans.

And what's the point of giving people with the commoner class more levels??? He wants to be a commoner, meaning he wants to be a non-hero. If you give him enough levels to be on par with the rest (in fact have a better CR than the rest), the sole purpose of the class is wasted.

Also, never forget the power of influence, and giving away "weak feats" that increase his stats "for roleplaying purposes" will make this charakter much more powerful than the rest. The party fighter might be able to give the bard a thrashing, but through his social skills he can call two dozen of able fighters who will arrest the party fighter and throw away the key.

Pielorinho · Jan 24, 2003

Darklone said:
No sneak attack damage with grenade like weapons like alchemists fire...

Really? I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this: it requires an attack roll and is done with the attack action. Assuming it's done within 30' and the opponent is denied a dex bonus, it should satisfy all the requirements of making a sneak attack.

Do you have any cite saying otherwise?

Here are the relevant parts from the SRD:

Sneak Attack: Any time the rogue's target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks the target, the rogue's attack deals extra damage. The extra damage is +1d6 at 1st level and an additional 1d6 every two levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

Ranged attacks can only count as sneak attacks if the target is within 30 feet.
...
*Grenadelike weapons require no proficiency to use. See text for full details on using these weapons.
**Grenadelike weapons deal splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of where they land.

Bizarrely, I can't find the text for alchemist's fire in the SRD.

Anyway, we've always played that you can SA with grenadelike weapons, and I'm pretty sure we're playing by the rules on this one.

Daniel

LokiDR · Jan 24, 2003

Why don't you consider a different combination? How about a rogue/bard/shadow dancer. You could become an amazing scout, give amazing performances to your amazed enemies, then disapear before they decide to attack. That has style writen all over it

I would also like to hear a reference on that SA with grenade-like weapon. Alchemist fire, IIRC, doesn't deal damage untill the next round, so I wonder most about that. If you critical with an alchemist fire, does it double all the damage, or just one round worth?

Pielorinho · Jan 24, 2003

LokiDR said:
I would also like to hear a reference on that SA with grenade-like weapon. Alchemist fire, IIRC, doesn't deal damage untill the next round, so I wonder most about that. If you critical with an alchemist fire, does it double all the damage, or just one round worth?

Actually, it does damage both on the round it hits and on the following round. You do SA damage on the first round; the remaining, residual damage on the second round would not (IMO) be SA damage.

I just looked through the FAQ, and couldn't find clarification on this; however, given the surrounding rules (you make an attack roll, using the attack option, against an opponent who may be denied their DEX bonus), I think it's pretty clear that you can SA with grenadelike weapons.

Daniel