Will WOTC's Ending PDF Sales Because of Pirating Increase Pirating of their Stuff?

[Scribble]

I don't think it will increase it. It might cause SOME to start pirating that wouldn't have before, but I think overall it will lessen the extent their new material (that they make the most money on) is pirated.


Personally, I use pdfs for several reasons other then portability. For instance ability to cut/paste parts of the document into other documents is the top benefit I find. Ability to search being a close second.

A lot of the pirated copies I've heard of or seen first hand are just scans of the book, with no attempt at OCRing done. For someone like me, this is pointless. It doesn't have the functionality I want to make a pdf worth it and often they're also very LARGE file sizes (because they're just a bunch of pictures really.)

Sure it's not going to outright STOP all pirating, I think it's absurd to think it would. There are plenty of people out there who just want a free book, or they aren't even intending to use it (they simply pirate for the thrill of pirating.) These people will continue downloading the poorly scanned file as they've always done.


What I think it WILL do is stop the people who otherwise wouldn't mind spending money on a product they enjoy, but the allure of a free quality copy instantly at their fingertips is just too great.

I think what Wizards saw was that when they started offering high quality PDFs this group increased. It was just making it way to easy to aquire a good copy that serve all the functions they would otherwise pay for.

Sure I'm sure there are high quality scans out there still, but I can guarantee it's much harder for people to find those, and in many cases for this group it's probably more trouble then it's worth when for only a small price, they can get the functionality (most of it anyway) they got from pdfs through something like the ddi.

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[Imban]

Sure I'm sure there are high quality scans out there still, but I can guarantee it's much harder for people to find those, and in many cases for this group it's probably more trouble then it's worth when for only a small price, they can get the functionality (most of it anyway) they got from pdfs through something like the ddi.

Unless you mean that it's harder to find pirate copies than it used to be to find legitimate copies to purchase... no, not even a little. Even the RIAA has problems making it harder to find pirated copies today than it was a week ago, by which I mean they fail all the time and occasionally post a grand victory that took them months and sets maybe five people back significantly and a bunch of people back not much at all.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I agree. The folks that are downloading torrents of the pdfs aren't going to run out to the book store and spend money just because it took 2-7 days for it to show up for download. They'll wait or do without.

Hence my caveat: If this data point means anything at all (and it might not).

But look, all I'm saying is that this thread is chock full of the opinion that piracy must be worse. And yet the only point resembling a fact seems to point in the opposite direction, if anything. And even they guy who posted that fact concluded in favour of the prevailing opinion.

 

[Aus_Snow]

WotC's legal department is working freelance as Paizo's marketing department.

Gold.

 

[Imban]

Prior to the PDF shutdown, 4E books were being widely pirated on the day of release. In the frontlist-driven world of RPG sales, two days could actually be significant. So if this data point means anything (and it might not), it's that the action did, in fact, have some sort of impact on piracy.

Sorry for not responding to this earlier, but ENWorld is too laggy for me to actually post messages at all anymore, 80% of the time.

Nonetheless, I have to call balderdash on this just a little - almost no physical RPG product has ever had a single release date. Despite that 4e books currently all come out on Tuesdays, various friends of mine *consistently* see new 4e D&D books first popping up in their local stores either the Friday before or the Monday after. A member of RPG.net who lives in Japan also routinely receives his copies two weeks or so before the release date, if I recall correctly.

Anecdotes and data are different, but I've been given to the impression that this is fairly common in the book trade in general, and especially with RPG books.

As a result, for anyone who could routinely receive a print copy before the official release date, there was never such a thing as 0-day piracy, and for anyone who always gets shafted by shipping or whose local gaming store is slow to get new releases, 2-day piracy and 0-day piracy are identical.

Mongoose has a fairly good plan going with its policy of releasing PDFs a month or so after the print copy, though. It makes it essentially certain that no pirated copies will be available for that first month, because almost no one would bother laboriously scanning their copy of a print book if a simpler and likely better alternative was due to arrive in a month or less in any case - and while I don't buy that there's much of a difference between 0-day and 2-day piracy, that a goodly portion of the sales of a 3rd-party splatbook happen within the first month would not shock me at all.

 

[Mark]

Prior to the PDF shutdown, 4E books were being widely pirated on the day of release. In the frontlist-driven world of RPG sales, two days could actually be significant. So if this data point means anything (and it might not), it's that the action did, in fact, have some sort of impact on piracy.

Good one. I could imagine someone trying to justify the policy and claim it was successful brining up that data point and trying to spin it as significant. I wouldn't believe it to be true or expect anyone else to belive it but I can imagine someone trying to spin it that way.

 

[Drkfathr1]

Hence my caveat: If this data point means anything at all (and it might not).

But look, all I'm saying is that this thread is chock full of the opinion that piracy must be worse. And yet the only point resembling a fact seems to point in the opposite direction, if anything. And even they guy who posted that fact concluded in favour of the prevailing opinion.

Resembling a fact does not a fact make. Sorry Charles, I'm not trying to be an ass, it just seems like you're getting a little worked up over opinions.

In my experience, based on direct observation, WoTC books are still showing up on Torrent sites, and still being downloaded at the same rate they were when WoTC was releasing official PDF's. If anything, the rate of piracy hasn't changed at all, and certainly hasn't changed based on WoTC's policy.

Now, perhaps that's just the sites I've seen, and perhaps all other torrent sites have dropped dramatically.

I really doubt it though, I can't accept the basic premise that if people can't download a book within 24 hours of release, they'll go out and buy it and not download it later.

People don't pirate/download books to have them first, and the pirates aren't making money off of their actions.

 

[lutecius]

Personally, I use pdfs for several reasons other then portability. For instance ability to cut/paste parts of the document into other documents is the top benefit I find. Ability to search being a close second. [...]
Sure I'm sure there are high quality scans out there still, but I can guarantee it's much harder for people to find those, and in many cases for this group it's probably more trouble then it's worth when for only a small price, they can get the functionality (most of it anyway) they got from pdfs through something like the ddi.

I don't think an additional monthly cost for a functionality they had for free is what pirates are looking for.

As for searchable quality scans, pretty good copies (bookmarked and OCRed) of every book since phb2 can be found without difficulty. Really good scans do result in larger files but I don't think this is an issue for many people.

Hence my caveat: If this data point means anything at all (and it might not).

But look, all I'm saying is that this thread is chock full of the opinion that piracy must be worse. And yet the only point resembling a fact seems to point in the opposite direction, if anything. And even they guy who posted that fact concluded in favour of the prevailing opinion.

Maybe because that fact does not point in the opposite direction? Delaying the piracy for a couple of days does not mean reducing it. The assumption that people who did not want to pay for a book in the first place are going to buy it because of the delay is also an opinion (just not widely accepted, apparently)

An important "fact" you're leaving out is that pirating is now the only option for those who want a pdf copy. If this "data point" means anything it's that wotc's action could at least increase piracy

Seriously, I doubt this move will significantly increase piracy but I am convinced it is utterly ineffective in reducing it.

 

[freyar]

I'd really be curious to know if older edition (1e/2e/even 3e) books that are now out of print have seen an upswing in piracy even if only a little. In a lot of cases, the only reliable way to get them was as PDFs on DT/RPGNow or Paizo. Frankly, I'd have loved to get some of the classic adventures and sourcebooks I missed out on, but now I'm spending my money on newer products. Maybe it's not a lot of money, but WotC lost it. And I'm not pirating the old stuff, but I can easily imagine some people would.

 

[Mark]

An important "fact" you're leaving out is that pirating is now the only option for those who want a pdf copy.

I suppose another fact being glossed over is the WotC PDF revenue stream amount which can now be estimated to the penny by anyone.