Winning Races: Half-Elves

[tyrlaan]

So really then, what people are saying is twin strike is OP. Can anyone demonstrate non-twin strike examples?

Edit: sorry missed this one from mengu: Ranger with throw and stab using cleave with deft hurler at the end of the charge.

Any others?

 

[Mengu]

Any others?

Probably nothing else is going to sound as crazy comparatively. Here is a quick list of powers I'd be somewhat concerned about with the ability to use it on a charge and/or with a different primary stat:

Brash Strike - e.g. a revenant assassin, converting to use with Con.

Pressing Strike/Deft Strike/Fading Strike - Lots of pre/post charge mobility, especially with mark of passage + boots of adept charging.

Pressing Strike/Tide of Iron/Crane's Wings/Dragon's Tail - push/prone optimization made easy.

Weight of Earth - easy crippling crush access.

Intuitive Strike - e.g. bard converting to cha (or cleric converting to wis) with impetuous charger?

Basically what's most disturbing about this is that the ability to use the power on a charge and with opportunity attacks makes half-elves better with a borrowed power than the original class. Being able to cherry pick a power that does something awesome with a secondary stat, and using your primary stat for both that and the attack itself is pushing the envelope of balancing factors. And this comes with essentially a free multiclass granting you the ability to pick feats from a different (likely synergistic) class.

Adept Dilettante and Effortless Dilettante, as well as the Polymath feature Broad Dilettante need some careful examination.

 

[Obryn]

IMO, the most problematic part of all this is that a Half-Elf with a few feats is better at using melee At-Wills than the actual class from which that At-Will hails.

Limiting Basic Attacks to OAs and Charges is barely a limit. It still accounts for almost all Basic Attacks, barring a warlord or ardent in the party.

-O

 

[mneme]

It's only as overpowered as it is because of how overpowered twin strike is. But combined with any other "this at will attack is better than other at will attack" powers, half-elves can now really bring on the cheese -- get it as a basic melee (if it's a melee attack), recast it to use the half-elf's best stat, and now get a free attack with it whenever they spend an action point (as a pp) and combine it with the rather absurd things you can do in beast form (eg, claw gloves, dire totem [with close burst attacks], Enraged Boar/Ferocious Tiger form). That we're using Twin Strike as exemplar is pretty clearly explained by TS being, well, absurd; I'm not sure what the next few good at-wills are after TS. Magic Weapon? Righeous Brand? Piercing Strike? Devastating Strike? Dragon's Tail? Five storms? Sword Burst? Dual Strike (probably not unless you're a chainfighter or a whip+flail fighter)?

 

[Istar]

Anything in there for a Half Elf Rogue Daggermaster using Twin Strike ?
A Brutal Rogue that is.

Sounds like plenty for an Artful Dodger.

 

[Obryn]

Anything in there for a Half Elf Rogue Daggermaster using Twin Strike ?
A Brutal Rogue that is.

Sounds like plenty for an Artful Dodger.

Ummm... How about using Twin Strike on charges and Opportunity Attacks?

I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

-O

 

[Klaus]

Anything in there for a Half Elf Rogue Daggermaster using Twin Strike ?
A Brutal Rogue that is.

Sounds like plenty for an Artful Dodger.

Depends on how are your Con, Wis or Cha.

 

[Nifft]

Oh wow, that's a lot of feats that need to be sent to the proverbial wall.

Regarding interaction, does Twin Strike (or any [Weapon] power) actually work in Beast Form, even if it effectively gains the [Beast] keyword? What's your [w] going to be?

Yet one more reason to shoot most of these feats.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Vael]

The author suggested over at Char Ops that the Beast form feat needs to be specified as an implement only attack.

So really then, what people are saying is twin strike is OP. Can anyone demonstrate non-twin strike examples?

Though Sorcerers already have some a pair of area at-will powers, being able to take Wizard, Artificer or Swordmage at-wills and put them to CHA is pretty strong. Especially the Wizard ... because the second part of the feat is that you now count as a member of the class for feat, paragon path and epic destiny requirements. Which means a Half-Elf Sorcerer can take something like Scorching Burst, switch it to CHA, and then take the Enlarge Spell feat, granting him massive bursts with massive damage.

 

[Rechan]

I guess I'm not seeing the huge brokenness of a druid using twin strike on a charge or opportunity attack.

In my experience, OAs happen very rarely.

If the druid can only use two attacks on a CHARGE, that there is a limiting factor. Not to mention that he's in beast form, so the static damage isn't going to be stacked up like a ranger dropping weapon damage feats.

Ultimately it looks to me like a ranger who can only use twin strike when charging, a limited situation.

Where is the broken?